AMD announce Zen 5

Vintage65

The Ryzen 9700X with 8 cores looks interesting, it has a base clock speed of 3.8GHz and up to 5.5 GHz boost @ 65W TDP (down from 105W previous gen). I'm thinking of building a small system to handle my growing digital guitar needs, and maybe I'll shove Gig Performer on there too.

Heartfeltdawn

I'm going down the Gig Performer route in the future. Seeing how well a basic interface like the IK Axe One performs and sounds on a basic laptop, I decided it's time to go software as much as possible. A few pedals, Morningstar MC6 Pro, Helix Native and Tonex SE, hook it all up in Gig Performer, done. 

Vintage65

Heartfeltdawn said:

I'm going down the Gig Performer route in the future. Seeing how well a basic interface like the IK Axe One performs and sounds on a basic laptop, I decided it's time to go software as much as possible. A few pedals, Morningstar MC6 Pro, Helix Native and Tonex SE, hook it all up in Gig Performer, done. 

Yeah, there is a lot of new and interesting digital guitar software coming out now, so it's a good time for me to stick it all on it's own dedicated machine.

willo

If you're playing VSTs live - and I like this idea - how reliable do you find it? I've had enough issues where a home setup via Mac stops working overnight because there's a new update required. That happening in practice time is a pain, at a gig it would be awful.

Vintage65

willo said:

If you're playing VSTs live - and I like this idea - how reliable do you find it? I've had enough issues where a home setup via Mac stops working overnight because there's a new update required. That happening in practice time is a pain, at a gig it would be awful.

 It's an interesting question. I'm just looking for a separation of tasks, so I envisage my setup to be something like a mostly offline rackmount computer, with a pair of Roland CM-30 Cube monitors attached for stereo output. I'd like to hear how the pro's do it live though.

Danny1969

I used Mainstage for quite a few gigs, keys rather than guitar. I travelled with 2 identical Macbook Pro's, each one with the same load of OSX and Mainstage and each one with an SDXC card containing an image of the same load as well. The quality of the sounds I could get with that setup was superb. 

For guitar I'm not so sure. I'm not really a fan of digital modelling but I found the Pod Go acceptable and that only cost £350 so going software based on guitar didn't seem worth it live 

Jonathanthomas83

Excuse me chiming in, but this kind of setup seems to be where I'm heading...however, I'm eager to hear how people are integrating post-amp FX pedals into the setup? An interface with a large amount of I/O options, I guess?

Heartfeltdawn

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Excuse me chiming in, but this kind of setup seems to be where I'm heading...however, I'm eager to hear how people are integrating post-amp FX pedals into the setup? An interface with a large amount of I/O options, I guess?

I'm not and probably wouldn't ever bother. Why would I use post-amp pedals for delay and reverb when I can use Valhalla, Soundtoys, and Liquidsonics for all of that? Plugins are getting better and better. I bought a CE-2W last month and it lasted 24 hours. Audiority's Chief Chorus does all the CE-2 I need. It cost me 19 Euros versus triple figures for the Boss.

I've been thinking about the setup for ages and selling my RME interface has been the decider. I know how well RME runs on everything. Seeing how well a £100 IK Axe One runs on a low spec Lenovo Pentium laptop running Tonex SE and Helix Native... that's a test and it passes completely. If it runs this well on something shit, then a higher spec machine I've set up for music alone will be excellent. 

Now to figure out when to buy Gig Performer 5

monquixote

Heartfeltdawn said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Excuse me chiming in, but this kind of setup seems to be where I'm heading...however, I'm eager to hear how people are integrating post-amp FX pedals into the setup? An interface with a large amount of I/O options, I guess?

I'm not and probably wouldn't ever bother. Why would I use post-amp pedals for delay and reverb when I can use Valhalla, Soundtoys, and Liquidsonics for all of that? Plugins are getting better and better. I bought a CE-2W last month and it lasted 24 hours. Audiority's Chief Chorus does all the CE-2 I need. It cost me 19 Euros versus triple figures for the Boss.

I've been thinking about the setup for ages and selling my RME interface has been the decider. I know how well RME runs on everything. Seeing how well a £100 IK Axe One runs on a low spec Lenovo Pentium laptop running Tonex SE and Helix Native... that's a test and it passes completely. If it runs this well on something shit, then a higher spec machine I've set up for music alone will be excellent. 

Now to figure out when to buy Gig Performer 5

This indeed.

I needed a Rotary sound the other day and just used the default one from Logic and it was one of the best rotary sounds I've ever had.

If you buy something like Soundtoys or Arturia FX collection you've got everything you could ever need. 

Heartfeltdawn

Some of the granular effects like Melda's MGranularMB and Audiority's Grainspace hooked up to reverb and something like The Drop by Cytomic are right up my street. I really like the idea of being able to wander about with a laptop and tinker with effects chains to use later. This year is a software-dominated year. 

Pedals (SPX90, DF-2, Mosky TD, Mooer Yellow comp) --> Axe One interface --> Tonex SE --> Helix Native (effects) --> other plugs --> Helix Native (cabs and end reverb only) 

Chuck in the MC6 Pro and I'm very happy. 

Vintage65

Heartfeltdawn said:

Some of the granular effects like Melda's MGranularMB and Audiority's Grainspace hooked up to reverb and something like The Drop by Cytomic are right up my street. I really like the idea of being able to wander about with a laptop and tinker with effects chains to use later. This year is a software-dominated year. 

Pedals (SPX90, DF-2, Mosky TD, Mooer Yellow comp) --> Axe One interface --> Tonex SE --> Helix Native (effects) --> other plugs --> Helix Native (cabs and end reverb only) 

Chuck in the MC6 Pro and I'm very happy. 

Exploring various VST chains is a whole world of fun, and you can get into some strange situations very quickly! These new neural network drive/fuzz pedals are killer too.

Jonathanthomas83

Heartfeltdawn said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Excuse me chiming in, but this kind of setup seems to be where I'm heading...however, I'm eager to hear how people are integrating post-amp FX pedals into the setup? An interface with a large amount of I/O options, I guess?

I'm not and probably wouldn't ever bother. Why would I use post-amp pedals for delay and reverb when I can use Valhalla, Soundtoys, and Liquidsonics for all of that? Plugins are getting better and better. I bought a CE-2W last month and it lasted 24 hours. Audiority's Chief Chorus does all the CE-2 I need. It cost me 19 Euros versus triple figures for the Boss.

I've been thinking about the setup for ages and selling my RME interface has been the decider. I know how well RME runs on everything. Seeing how well a £100 IK Axe One runs on a low spec Lenovo Pentium laptop running Tonex SE and Helix Native... that's a test and it passes completely. If it runs this well on something shit, then a higher spec machine I've set up for music alone will be excellent. 

Now to figure out when to buy Gig Performer 5

Whilst this is all very noble, I’ve tried and failed to replicate, with plugins, some of the sounds that my pre and post amp fx do. 

Tell me more about your decision to sell the RME in favour of the IK. I have a Babyface Pro and it’s brilliant. Aforementioned need for more I/O notwithstanding, I’m open to the idea of freeing up some cash by “downgrading”, but only if I get as good a headphone experience and A/D conversion and preamp quality.

Heartfeltdawn

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Whilst this is all very noble, I’ve tried and failed to replicate, with plugins, some of the sounds that my pre and post amp fx do. 

Tell me more about your decision to sell the RME in favour of the IK. I have a Babyface Pro and it’s brilliant. Aforementioned need for more I/O notwithstanding, I’m open to the idea of freeing up some cash by “downgrading”, but only if I get as good a headphone experience and A/D conversion and preamp quality.

It's very much horses for courses with me and sound. I don't use a lot of pre-amp FX. Compressor, a bit of dirt, and my SPX90 Reverse Gate pedal will do. I was jiggling around with a rough board to aim for this morning.



The Tonex One is a possible, not a necessity, so that might come off the board. With post-amp FX, I much prefer plugins. I've never liked the Strymon sound going right back to the first time I tried the El-Capistan. A lot of the pedalboard favourites you see on other boards, I just don't dig at all. If I want Eventide reverbs, it's way cheaper to go with plugins.  When it comes to plugins, there's so much out there.  

In terms of audio interfaces, I've had a lot. In the last few years: NI KA2, NI KA6 Mk 1 and Mk 2, IK Axe Solo, IK Axe One, MOTU M4, RME Digiface USB hooked up to an ADI-2 FS converter, Babyface Pro, UCXII, using Stomp XL as an audio interface. The quality of RME is clear. The conversion is superb and the drivers are wonderful. But it's overblown for my needs. I don't need the best quality. I can hear the difference between the RME converters and something lower spec but it does nothing to destroy the enjoyment of music for me. If I want something with better conversion than the Axe One, then the Motu M4 will be my port of call.

Sound is only one part though. Driver reliability is more important and seeing how that Axe One perforrms on a low spec laptop with Tonex and Native and other stuff running at a 64 buffer size with Youtube playing multiple videos at the same time... shit, it's working without any crackles and no issues. It's been the same with similar priced AI's like the KA2. You don't need a Mac M1 with an RME interface to get a good sounding reliable system. 

I couldn't justify keeping a £1200 audio interface and quite honestly the sort of sounds I like come from years back when digital gear and conversion wasn't great. The quality you get now in even a basic interface is way ahead of where it was 20 years ago when I got my first AI (all hail the Creative Soundblaster Live Platinum!). It's similar to pedals. I sold my Diamond compressor and went with the Mooer because it's good enough. I sold my Eastman semi and bought a secondhand Epi Inspired By 335.  Getting away from the mentaity of 'I need this expensive thing to really do anything' is a good thing for me. 

Jonathanthomas83

Heartfeltdawn said:

 my SPX90 Reverse Gate pedal will do

First things first...I didn't know such a thing existed! I would love more SPX 90 algorithms in pedal form, Symphonic and Pitch Change C for starters! 

Heartfeltdawn said:

The Tonex One is a possible, not a necessity, so that might come off the board. With post-amp FX, I much prefer plugins. I've never liked the Strymon sound going right back to the first time I tried the El-Capistan. A lot of the pedalboard favourites you see on other boards, I just don't dig at all. If I want Eventide reverbs, it's way cheaper to go with plugins.  When it comes to plugins, there's so much out there.  

I too have had more luck with post-amp FX in plugin form than pedals, but there's some stuff I can't recreate and unlike yourself, I'm a bit OCD about it unfortunately. I can't dial that out of my nature, as much as I've tried! But I'm right there with you, I mostly use plugins for this...I wish Neunaber would include more of their superb algorithms in their plugin, but alas, since the sale to Quilter, I can't see that ever happening. I wish Strymon (sorry) would release the DIG and El Cap algo's in plugin format. I am getting good tape delay results with plugins though, to be fair.

Heartfeltdawn said:

In terms of audio interfaces, I've had a lot. In the last few years: NI KA2, NI KA6 Mk 1 and Mk 2, IK Axe Solo, IK Axe One, MOTU M4, RME Digiface USB hooked up to an ADI-2 FS converter, Babyface Pro, UCXII, using Stomp XL as an audio interface. The quality of RME is clear. The conversion is superb and the drivers are wonderful. But it's overblown for my needs. I don't need the best quality. I can hear the difference between the RME converters and something lower spec but it does nothing to destroy the enjoyment of music for me. If I want something with better conversion than the Axe One, then the Motu M4 will be my port of call.

Sound is only one part though. Driver reliability is more important and seeing how that Axe One perforrms on a low spec laptop with Tonex and Native and other stuff running at a 64 buffer size with Youtube playing multiple videos at the same time... shit, it's working without any crackles and no issues. It's been the same with similar priced AI's like the KA2. You don't need a Mac M1 with an RME interface to get a good sounding reliable system. 

Aren't RME meant to have some of the best drivers around? But I get you, I would be hesitant to keep a £1.2k interface too. Sounds like you've found the best for your needs. Must admit, you've got me thinking. The variable impedance of the Hi-Z on the Axe One sounds cool.

Heartfeltdawn

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Heartfeltdawn said:

 my SPX90 Reverse Gate pedal will do

First things first...I didn't know such a thing existed! I would love more SPX 90 algorithms in pedal form, Symphonic and Pitch Change C for starters! 

The Reverse Gate pedal is decidedly rare. They're made by this chap:

https://www.instagram.com/obselitist/

It's all designed on a Spin FRV-1 chip and it is absolutely dead on with the SPX90 program. A bit quieter than the SPX90 and you have a tone control. I got very lucky on Reverb with this. There is actually another reverse reverb out now through Pedal Partners hooking up with Maneco Labs. 

Heartfeltdawn

Jonathanthomas83 said:

I too have had more luck with post-amp FX in plugin form than pedals, but there's some stuff I can't recreate and unlike yourself, I'm a bit OCD about it unfortunately. I can't dial that out of my nature, as much as I've tried! But I'm right there with you, I mostly use plugins for this...I wish Neunaber would include more of their superb algorithms in their plugin, but alas, since the sale to Quilter, I can't see that ever happening. I wish Strymon (sorry) would release the DIG and El Cap algo's in plugin format. I am getting good tape delay results with plugins though, to be fair.

I have plenty of OCD moments. The amount of SPX90 and FX500 rack units that have been through my hands along with well over 20 Rats and a similar number of big box DMMs can attest to that  what changed things for me was a day going between a lovely sounding DMM and Echoboy with Soundtoys. It took a while and then it dawned on me what the difference was: no noise with the plugin. The hiss on a DMM is like the noise ona  vinyl record, it's part of the experience. 

Vintage65

Heartfeltdawn said:
The Reverse Gate pedal is decidedly rare. They're made by this chap:

https://www.instagram.com/obselitist/

It's all designed on a Spin FRV-1 chip and it is absolutely dead on with the SPX90 program. A bit quieter than the SPX90 and you have a tone control. I got very lucky on Reverb with this. There is actually another reverse reverb out now through Pedal Partners hooking up with Maneco Labs. 

Some VST with reverse reverb:

Crystalline

EAReverb 2

Eventide Blackhole

RP Verb 2

Heartfeltdawn

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Aren't RME meant to have some of the best drivers around? But I get you, I would be hesitant to keep a £1.2k interface too. Sounds like you've found the best for your needs. Must admit, you've got me thinking. The variable impedance of the Hi-Z on the Axe One sounds cool.

Yep, best drivers. Rock solid under a heavy load. But I'm not doing anything heavy. I'm just an eejit playing guitar. I've just been playing for a couple of hours with Tonex going into Native, I've still got a load of YT windows open and all the other crap that I do on my £200 refurbished Lenovo Ideapad 3 with a Ryzen 3 processor, nothing super-spec... and it's all solid at a 64 buffer size. If it runs this well on that, then my super tweaked near silent desktop will be even better when it's up and running again.

Jonathanthomas83

Fair one! I need to invest in Native, it's a hell of an outlay to replace my DL4 MkII, but I think it'll be worth it for a few other bits too. Sorry @Vintage65, totally kiboshed your thread here, haven't I.

Vintage65 said:

Heartfeltdawn said:
The Reverse Gate pedal is decidedly rare. They're made by this chap:

https://www.instagram.com/obselitist/

It's all designed on a Spin FRV-1 chip and it is absolutely dead on with the SPX90 program. A bit quieter than the SPX90 and you have a tone control. I got very lucky on Reverb with this. There is actually another reverse reverb out now through Pedal Partners hooking up with Maneco Labs. 

Some VST with reverse reverb:

Crystalline

EAReverb 2

Eventide Blackhole

RP Verb 2

 Have you seen my thread? https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/267514/reverb-plugin-that-does-the-meris-pitch-down-thing#latest Would love your thoughts, if you have any

Heartfeltdawn

Vintage65 said:

Some VST with reverse reverb:

Crystalline

EAReverb 2

Eventide Blackhole

RP Verb 2

Not quite the same sadly. The Reverse Gate preset on the SPX90 is a multi-tap delay where the taps get progressively louder. Line 6 added something similar to Helix in a recent update with the Nonlinear reverb. 

Vintage, pretty sure I'm buying Gig Performer 5 in the next week or so. I'll start a thread on it when I do. Sorry the thread rather turned away from Zen! 

Vintage65

Heartfeltdawn said:

Vintage65 said:

Some VST with reverse reverb:

Crystalline

EAReverb 2

Eventide Blackhole

RP Verb 2

Not quite the same sadly. The Reverse Gate preset on the SPX90 is a multi-tap delay where the taps get progressively louder. Line 6 added something similar to Helix in a recent update with the Nonlinear reverb. 

Vintage, pretty sure I'm buying Gig Performer 5 in the next week or so. I'll start a thread on it when I do. Sorry the thread rather turned away from Zen! 

It's all good since I'm the one who started the turning away in the first post!  Just waiting for some benchmarks now to see what these new CPU's can do. I have high hopes since the current iteration is one of the best performers for audio applications.