Can you gig with 20 watts?

DiscoStu

In my quest to find a lighter rig for gigging I'm now looking at lunchbox valve heads. There's a fair few on the market now and seem to hover around the 20W mark, but usually come described as 'studio'.

Realistically, with a cab are they gonna work for a gig? Pubs, clubs, small halls? I've always thought you need a minimum 50 watts for live (not sure where I got that from) but have I got that wrong? 

Boromedic

Suppose it depends on many factors, clean headroom needed? Mic'ing up, PA, loud drummer, etc. etc. 

I have a Friedman Runt 20 and a 2*12 Marshall cab, it's insanely loud and will take a pedal or two without mushing out. It also has a really stark clean channel that's loud as you like as well, can't see you'd need much more these days. Especially as they keep making stages quieter. 

ElectricXII

I suppose it depends on the type of music you're playing and perhaps whether or not you really need pristine cleans.

I play in a rock/pop covers band, and I used my backup amp, an Orange Terror Stamp, last night for a large pub gig after my usual amp (a Vox AC15C1, nominally 15 watts output) died on me. The Terror Stamp is rated at 20 watts and it totally did the job.

Hoof

If you need loud, crystal cleans then probably not but otherwise yes.

 I gigged in a  cover band (rock/punk/new-wave) with a 30w Hayden Mofo and still found it was too loud for most pub/function room venues un-mic'ed. You still have to turn them up a bit for decent tone. Always having to turn it down and put up with a tone I didn't really like. Another guy in the band used a Marshall Origin 20 head for a while and found the same thing. 

It's partly down to the fact that venues and audiences don't really want bands to be properly loud anymore. I played a metal festival (largeish indoor venue, large stage, pro PA) and had to turn my amp head down from the volume we usually rehearse at. I watched several other bands that day/evening and found that you could quite comfortably hold a conversation while bands were playing. 20-30 years ago you wouldn't have had a chance of exchanging anything other than the odd word. 

So, yeah it should be plenty, presuming we're talking about 20w valve. Class D I would probably say around 80 watts.

theatreanchor

Not with my drummer. 

CarpeDiem

I’ve used 3 different 15 watt valve amps live. All had enough clean headroom and the drummers all used acoustic kits.

fastonebaz

I gigged loads with an 18W amp,  heavy rock covers,   It's what you do with it that counts. 

octatonic

I gig a Matchless 15w amp and it is too loud to really turn up.

Wazmeister

Depends upon the amp, and the headroom requirements...

BUT

Try a 15w Matchless - it'll blow the lintels out...

DiscoStu

Cheers. 

A lot of the newer models have line outs, IR, or cab sims so can go DI but that's not an option I currently have, I'm looking at just being me and an amp for now but may go the other routes further down the line once my new band gets going. The cab could always get mic'd up of course.

So a 20w valve head and a V30 or Creamback might be doable?

Hoof

If you're thinking of a lightweight rig why not consider Victory or Blackstar's pedalboard amps?

But otherwise, yes, a 20w valve head and 1x12 cab with your preferred speaker will do the job. 

Danny1969

If you mic it up you can gig with pretty much anything. I did hundreds of gigs with a Blackstar HT5 .... mainly classic rock and  a Lizzy tribute but also did some Dire Straights and more cleaner stuff with it. 

The cab and the sensitivity of the speaker makes a difference .... I used a large 1 X 12 with a Celestion Lead 75 in it 

nero1701

Tone King Imperial 20w Yes. Nice, clean and lots of punch

Tone King Falcon Grande 20w No. Breaks up a bit earlier

Deluxe Reverb 20, Yes..but It does break up a bit past 5/6 on the volume

Kebabkid

Mine - Divided by 13 JRT 9/15w
PRS MT-15 
Yes to both of those and with ample clean headroom,  too. Decent transformers and cabs, a Tone Tubby and Mesa boogie, respectively.

DiscoStu

Kebabkid said:

Mine - Divided by 13 JRT 9/15w
PRS MT-15 
Yes to both of those and with ample clean headroom,  too. Decent transformers and cabs, a Tone Tubby and Mesa boogie, respectively.

I was looking at the MT-15 a few weeks ago and that's kinda what got me started down this road.

Supportact

I play gigs in small venues with an AC15, so yes. Depends on the type of music though I suppose, I don't play heavy rock or metal etc. I find it fine though and anywhere that's bigger I can just mic it up. 

DiscoStu

Yeah I should probably be more specific huh?
My new band is rock/grunge but I love the Mesa Rectifier hi gain sound so would want that for my own shits and giggles. And a clean clean.

BGG

I gigged for years with a 22 watt Deluxe Reverb, never got it past 3 or 4 on the volume. Sounded great but push it past 6 to 7 and it really opened up. 

Kebabkid

DiscoStu said:

Kebabkid said:

Mine - Divided by 13 JRT 9/15w
PRS MT-15 
Yes to both of those and with ample clean headroom,  too. Decent transformers and cabs, a Tone Tubby and Mesa boogie, respectively.

I was looking at the MT-15 a few weeks ago and that's kinda what got me started down this road.

Mine is for sale on here and that thing ain't 15w - it's closer to 30w

ecc83

I think the question should be rephrased as "can you gig with an amplifier CALLED a 20W amp?

Then the answer is much more difficult.

If we stick to valves for the mo' Two EL84s cathode biased with a just adequate power supply (especially with a valve rectifier) will start to crunch at 15W and so cleans in anywhere but a very small pub and you are pretty much limited to 'folk' if you want to stay clean.

Fix bias the 84s and hit them with higher HT from a chunky solid state supply with 100uF caps and that fekker will chuck out 30 watts if you really cane it and probably be loud and clean enough in a biggish pub.

Then speakers make a big difference. Going from a single 30W unit with a sensitivity of 95dB/W/M to a pair of 60 W, 100dB/W/M will make a huge difference. Not just the increased sensitivity but also because 120W of speaker will not start to thermally compress when hit with just 20 watts.

If you wanted a solid state amp you need to look no lower than an honest 50 watts but make sure it can put that into your speakers.

Dave.

Dominic

Also depnds on the amp itself ......there are huge differences
.octatonic said:

I gig a Matchless 15w amp and it is too loud to really turn up.

I'm sure ......had a Lightning 2x12 ......that was louder than bandmates Marshall 50w
A Dr Z wreck 30 is as loud as most 100 watters .........an AC30 is also crushingly loud