Vintage/old Archtop guitars - Hofner Et el worth it?

Corvus

I had a '58 Senator with pickup for ages, since the late 80s. Eventually like most/all it needed a neck reset. Never needed a refret though, I did level it once, and went through a few zero frets. Big neck with round radius board. Sound-wise it was not a delicate jazz box or airy fingerpicker, it wanted to be played quite hard. Could get loud. Was perfectly playable with a good action (still is, my boy has it now).
If you want a jazz machine about any more modernish hollow or semi-acoustic would be far more familiar to play and live with.

57Deluxe

My Hofner E 457 (1985 model) is epic for playable neck, overall build and monster rock sounds and beautiful unplugged tone - as good as any acoustic. I have Peter Gabriel to thank for buying this for me!

BobHillman

Peter Gabriel bought you a guitar?

stylesforfree

57Deluxe said:

My Hofner E 457 (1985 model) is epic for playable neck, overall build and monster rock sounds and beautiful unplugged tone - as good as any acoustic. I have Peter Gabriel to thank for buying this for me!

Lovely, Peter Gabriel.....?

BobHillman said:

Peter Gabriel bought you a guitar?

It's like...the most suspensful of guitar story openers, right?

"I have Peter Gabriel to thank for buying me this guitar".....ok? So whats the story? hahaha

drofluf

stylesforfree said:

57Deluxe said:

My Hofner E 457 (1985 model) is epic for playable neck, overall build and monster rock sounds and beautiful unplugged tone - as good as any acoustic. I have Peter Gabriel to thank for buying this for me!

Lovely, Peter Gabriel.....?

BobHillman said:

Peter Gabriel bought you a guitar?

It's like...the most suspensful of guitar story openers, right?

"I have Peter Gabriel to thank for buying me this guitar".....ok? So whats the story? hahaha

Yes we need to be told

BobHillman

drofluf said:

stylesforfree said:

57Deluxe said:

My Hofner E 457 (1985 model) is epic for playable neck, overall build and monster rock sounds and beautiful unplugged tone - as good as any acoustic. I have Peter Gabriel to thank for buying this for me!

Lovely, Peter Gabriel.....?

BobHillman said:

Peter Gabriel bought you a guitar?

It's like...the most suspensful of guitar story openers, right?

"I have Peter Gabriel to thank for buying me this guitar".....ok? So whats the story? hahaha

Yes we need to be told

Definitely!

jeromegreenday

So...

I have a 60's Italian made Welson 7730, Made under license from Wurlitzer, so based on a Wurlitzer 7730.
I wanted one of these for years, so I have the 'dream guitar' excuse. Rare as rocking horse shit so bought the only one for sale. PERIOD. You don't see these for sale, so it was a case of buying a broken one or never having one. 
yep, it was the usual £200-£300 60's hollow body price. 
I played it as best I could when it was broken. The neck profile was amazing. It sounded amazing and with the 'varitone' type controls it had been wired so it had built in distortion?! But the distortion sounded great. 

Firstly know a bit about luthier type stuff. I knew my guitar would need Kerfing and cleats etc - check out videos on youtube if you don't know about it.
Next, don't have champagne ideas on a lemonade budget. Buy one of these and if you want it fixed, leave it would a gifted woodworker / luthier and unfortunately leave them a carte blanche to fix it regardless of the cost, or be at very very least be prepared to spend another £300 on it, bodging it into some half decent condition.

As you've found out on the forum, many people won't work on them as they have so many associated problems. yep they're steamed, the ply is bone dry and being hollow the ply will have bowed and moved so it looks more like a arch top! Find a luthier interested in them, or an amateur budding enthusiast who wants to cut their teeth learning to repair. if the guy rolls his eyes when he sees one, he's not interested in repairing it! 

If it's rare and unique or a keeper, by all means spend the money. If it's as common as dog poo and not worth fixing, that's why there's so many of them. 

This was mine when I got it. 
<a href="https://imgur.com/9pF7ExZ"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/9pF7ExZ.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

stylesforfree

jeromegreenday said:

So...

I have a 60's Italian made Welson 7730, Made under license from Wurlitzer, so based on a Wurlitzer 7730.
I wanted one of these for years, so I have the 'dream guitar' excuse. Rare as rocking horse shit so bought the only one for sale. PERIOD. You don't see these for sale, so it was a case of buying a broken one or never having one. 
yep, it was the usual £200-£300 60's hollow body price. 
I played it as best I could when it was broken. The neck profile was amazing. It sounded amazing and with the 'varitone' type controls it had been wired so it had built in distortion?! But the distortion sounded great. 

Firstly know a bit about luthier type stuff. I knew my guitar would need Kerfing and cleats etc - check out videos on youtube if you don't know about it.
Next, don't have champagne ideas on a lemonade budget. Buy one of these and if you want it fixed, leave it would a gifted woodworker / luthier and unfortunately leave them a carte blanche to fix it regardless of the cost, or be at very very least be prepared to spend another £300 on it, bodging it into some half decent condition.

As you've found out on the forum, many people won't work on them as they have so many associated problems. yep they're steamed, the ply is bone dry and being hollow the ply will have bowed and moved so it looks more like a arch top! Find a luthier interested in them, or an amateur budding enthusiast who wants to cut their teeth learning to repair. if the guy rolls his eyes when he sees one, he's not interested in repairing it! 

If it's rare and unique or a keeper, by all means spend the money. If it's as common as dog poo and not worth fixing, that's why there's so many of them. 

This was mine when I got it. 
<a href="https://imgur.com/9pF7ExZ"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/9pF7ExZ.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

  Yeah that's some pretty grim damage! I do have a few guitars from the 60's that I have lusted for but I now realise that I might as well go all out on a modern beauty, I played a Gretsch Jet Player G6128T today in a local music store and holy F%^& hot damn it's one of the best guitars I have EVER played....but it's £2000

So indeed, the champagne ideas on a lemonade budget applies to a certain extent but only because I get more satisfaction out of a great deal on a guitar. I think after spending close to £2000 on my Japanese Fender Tele and a Gibson SG tribute I have manifested some ideas in the back of my head that there must be SOMETHING out there from a bygone era that has to be incredible value, play well and sound amazing.

In this day and age where there's plenty of nice guitars coming out of China and Indonesia that satisfy the average player it's easy to overlook and forget about vintage guitars...but the problem is once you pick up and American made Gibson tribute that has actually been made with care (I am lucky that mine is nearly flawless) or a Japanese Fender or a mid 2000's Peerless made Korean Gretsch...you end up creating an illusion that there are guitars out there that are incredibly well made and feel good to play without having to shell out the cash for a modern Japanese/American made guitar.

Back to the lust for the vintage pieces...the responses so far now have me second guessing so many things that I am ready to to take action and pull the trigger on:
 A well renowned Korean Epiphone that I know will sound good plugged in and sound decent acoustically 
A Godin 5th Avenue Kingpin II that seems to tick all the right boxes from the videos I have watched, but it's a guitar that pops up very often on the 2nd hand market that it gives me the feeling there msut be something not quite right about it
That Gretsch I played today
Another Gretsch I saw on Ebay
A Gibson 
Anything....haha. I dont even know what I want now, but that Gretsch was incredible.

Mr_Claw

I've played one 50s Senator my bud had that *hadn't* broken. No truss rod. Even though it was in good condition, it was still a pig to play. 

I think they're basically really cool furniture if I'm honest. 

OilCityPickups

Don't forget one of the very best Korean made Gretsch style guitars: The Peavey Rockingham, built to the specs of Darrel Higham ... 
Darrel is now a Gretsch endorsee, but the Rockingham is a lovely guitar - It does suffer early reissue Korean Gretsch Electromatic 'shit pickup syndrome' and if I found one at the right price I'd convert it to Dog Ear P90s (with risers to cover the HB holes). Killer guitars.  

guitars4you

OilCityPickups said:

Don't forget one of the very best Korean made Gretsch style guitars: The Peavey Rockingham, built to the specs of Darrel Higham ... 
Darrel is now a Gretsch endorsee, but the Rockingham is a lovely guitar - It does suffer early reissue Korean Gretsch Electromatic 'shit pickup syndrome' and if I found one at the right price I'd convert it to Dog Ear P90s (with risers to cover the HB holes). Killer guitars.  

Agree with you about the Rockingham - rarely come across a bad example

TheMarlin

The Rockingham actually started out life as a Gretsch.  Was made by Peerless in Korean who were making the Gretsch Historic Series at the time.  Peavey did a deal with Peerless, and the exact same guitar (same hardware, dimensions, materials) was made with a slightly different headstock and Peavey brand. 

Aside from the headstock, it’s absolutely identical to the Gretsch Historic G3131

I had a burgundy one, and a blonde one. The build quality was fabulous. It was even finished inside to an incredibly high standard. My luthier was hugely impressed with it (except the uninspiring pickups).  It eventually gained a set of Oil City pickups, and was a much happier guitar. 

stylesforfree

TheMarlin said:

The Rockingham actually started out life as a Gretsch.  Was made by Peerless in Korean who were making the Gretsch Historic Series at the time.  Peavey did a deal with Peerless, and the exact same guitar (same hardware, dimensions, materials) was made with a slightly different headstock and Peavey brand. 

Aside from the headstock, it’s absolutely identical to the Gretsch Historic G3131

I had a burgundy one, and a blonde one. The build quality was fabulous. It was even finished inside to an incredibly high standard. My luthier was hugely impressed with it (except the uninspiring pickups).  It eventually gained a set of Oil City pickups, and was a much happier guitar. 

I own one of those Gretsch Historic series! A G3140, it's build quality is of a similar level to that of a one off custom built Gretsch pro series but it's very heavy and the center block kills the acoustics. The only thing that needs changing is the nut as the Historic series had plastic/PVC nuts which caused some tuning and intonation issues but I did pick it up for £350 with a hardcase so I can't complain.

The Rockingham seems to be one of those guitars that pops up for £400 a few times a year on the used market. Do you still have yours?

The Historic series are a pretty bargain too.

GuyBoden

The very old German archtops are mostly rubbish, most don't even have a trussrod, so they're mostly cheese graters.

I once had a Jimmy Foster archtop, it was one of the best sounding acoustic archtops I've had, but an old pre 1950's Gibson L4 or L5 sounds good acoustically to my ears. The old Guilds are under valued.

I've had plenty archtops over my lifetime.

Jimmy Foster Archtop Below:

guitars4you

TheMarlin said:

The Rockingham actually started out life as a Gretsch.  Was made by Peerless in Korean who were making the Gretsch Historic Series at the time.  Peavey did a deal with Peerless, and the exact same guitar (same hardware, dimensions, materials) was made with a slightly different headstock and Peavey brand. 

Aside from the headstock, it’s absolutely identical to the Gretsch Historic G3131

I had a burgundy one, and a blonde one. The build quality was fabulous. It was even finished inside to an incredibly high standard. My luthier was hugely impressed with it (except the uninspiring pickups).  It eventually gained a set of Oil City pickups, and was a much happier guitar. 

The story behind the guitar was a relationship that was struck up between Daryl Higham and Ken Achard - Ken was the MD of Peavey Europe - A big Eddie Cochran fan - Some might remember Ken for his days in the 1960,s at Top Gear in Denmark Street - Plus he wrote 2 well known guitar books in the late 70s on Gibson and Fender - So the two had a rock n roll bond so Ken helped to put the package together with regards to the Rockingham plus endorse other Peavey products like the Classic valve combo

TheMarlin

stylesforfree said:

TheMarlin said:

The Rockingham actually started out life as a Gretsch.  Was made by Peerless in Korean who were making the Gretsch Historic Series at the time.  Peavey did a deal with Peerless, and the exact same guitar (same hardware, dimensions, materials) was made with a slightly different headstock and Peavey brand. 

Aside from the headstock, it’s absolutely identical to the Gretsch Historic G3131

I had a burgundy one, and a blonde one. The build quality was fabulous. It was even finished inside to an incredibly high standard. My luthier was hugely impressed with it (except the uninspiring pickups).  It eventually gained a set of Oil City pickups, and was a much happier guitar. 

I own one of those Gretsch Historic series! A G3140, it's build quality is of a similar level to that of a one off custom built Gretsch pro series but it's very heavy and the center block kills the acoustics. The only thing that needs changing is the nut as the Historic series had plastic/PVC nuts which caused some tuning and intonation issues but I did pick it up for £350 with a hardcase so I can't complain.

The Rockingham seems to be one of those guitars that pops up for £400 a few times a year on the used market. Do you still have yours?

The Historic series are a pretty bargain too.

No, sold mine unfortunately.  GAS is a cruel and relentless mistress. I’ve sold many a brilliant guitar/amp to buy something much much worse that I believed would be better.  

Ho hum. 

Luckily, I like all of my guitars at the moment.  Not a dud between them

stylesforfree

GuyBoden said:

The very old German archtops are mostly rubbish, most don't even have a trussrod, so they're mostly cheese graters.

HAHA, cheese graters! Ok, so I will avoid the German cheese's

jeromegreenday

A bit off topic but I'm a massive Darrel Higham fan, A friend of mine got me into him, I don't know why he isn't mentioned on the forum more, he's probably on here! He's one of the finest rockabilly players ever. I believe, and I have it on good authority, Eddie Cochrane's mum ONLY ever allowed one person around her house to go up to Eddie's old bedroom and play his guitar and that person was Darrel. 
With the Rockinghams he puts a kent armstrong P90 in the neck and possibly a dearmond 2000 in the bridge. I had one of his albums around somewhere, the Katmen cometh. What a bloody great album.