Overtime and holiday pay (BBC content)

Phil_aka_Pip

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29884867

May I suggest that if your overtime is dictated and not your option to do it, then your holiday pay should include it. That would put you in a similar position to the salaried employee who is expected to "do the job regardless of how long it takes for a fixed salary": this person's salary is usually higher than that of an hourly paid worker, consequently his holiday pay is also higher, but his pay rate assumes that he will work extra hours when required. If you are hourly paid and offered overtime but are usually given the choice of whether or not you do it, then I don't think overtime should be included in your holiday pay.

Any other views?

Col_Decker

wot you said. If its voluntary then it shouldn't be included imo.

welshboyo

Just a fucking pay rise would be nice rather than a "what if" payment when I'm on my hols...

Jalapeno

welshboyo said:

Just a fucking pay rise would be nice rather than a "what if" payment when I'm on my hols...

Amen ....

I'm not poorly paid, but still it's over 4yrs and counting ....

Fretwired

Phil_aka_Pip said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29884867

May I suggest that if your overtime is dictated and not your option to do it, then your holiday pay should include it. That would put you in a similar position to the salaried employee who is expected to "do the job regardless of how long it takes for a fixed salary": this person's salary is usually higher than that of an hourly paid worker, consequently his holiday pay is also higher, but his pay rate assumes that he will work extra hours when required. If you are hourly paid and offered overtime but are usually given the choice of whether or not you do it, then I don't think overtime should be included in your holiday pay.

Any other views?

Your entitled to it - the same goes for commission. If you're paid commission then this needs to be taken into account in your holiday pay and you can go back 18 years to reclaim what's owed. A friend of mine is heavily involved in some legal cases in this area. If you have any specific questions drop me a line and I'll ask him for you.

joeyowen

welshboyo said:

Just a fucking pay rise would be nice rather than a "what if" payment when I'm on my hols...

I get 1% woooo! Still, less than inflation, again...sigh

roundthebend

I don't understand. Are there people who have a basic salary, which is used to calculate holiday pay, and they are also expected to work extra hours as overtime which they get an overtime payment for?

I'm aware that some people work more than their contracted hours to finish their tasks, but I don't think those people get paid extra for their hours. I hadn't thought about how that could or should be taken into account for holiday pay.

My approach, and maybe I'm lucky, is that I work only my contracted hours. If I choose to do more, it's on my terms so usually because I am interested in the extra stuff for personal reasons. If I'm asked to do more, then I will be asking for overtime payment. I never get into a situation where overtime is the norm. I'm fortunate that I work for a company that fully supports that culture, but I never understand people who moan about having to work longer hours to finish stuff and not getting paid for it or not having a choice.

dafuzz

Well it looks like they won. Seems illogical tbh

How do I know if / what I can claim then?

LooseMoose

Surely this is totally unmanageable if back-dated.  I don't object going forward, but this could scupper some SMEs if backdated.

welshboyo

Jalapeno said:

welshboyo said:

Just a fucking pay rise would be nice rather than a "what if" payment when I'm on my hols...

Amen ....

I'm not poorly paid, but still it's over 4yrs and counting ....

yeah, same here, perhaps we work for the same company LOL

Adam_MD

dafuzz;402321" said:

Well it looks like they won. Seems illogical tbhHow do I know if / what I can claim then?

They'll appeal it and win, then the appeal will be appealed and the unions will win again, it'll go back and forth for a while but ultimately nothing will change.

I'm not against staff who have to work overtime having it included but voluntary overtime! Also backdating it for years would actually put some companies out of business which would increase unemployment again etc really bad idea.

Jalapeno

Seems like it only affects hourly paid people and mandatory overtime.  Backdating issue not announced.

I have no objection if it is forward looking as it will ultimately encourage employers to create MORE jobs, but backdating it would be economic suicide.

dafuzz

18 years (if it goes that far back) would cover my entire working life. And I've done a shitload of voluntary overtime and all for large large companies - I'm frankly salivating over the idea that I can stick the boot in after all this time and shake them down for more cash. Really large companies.

Prolly won't happen though, as said

axisus

The trouble with a backdated ruling like this is that it could really shaft small businesses. It's all very well squeezing more dosh out of them but if you get made redundant as a byproduct, or even worse they go bust and you get nothing, then was it really worth it!

Phil_aka_Pip

A lot of the companies I once worked for no longer exist. They died, or were eaten by another even bigger company. The majority of my working life has been salaried anyway.

Fretwired

LooseMoose said:

Surely this is totally unmanageable if back-dated.  I don't object going forward, but this could scupper some SMEs if backdated.

Yep. My friend is working on a case that will cost an employer £500K .. not a big business either. I think BT could lose millions ..

frankus

hmm, I could sue my employer for thousands and run off to the algarve with his wife and kids...

and leave his company to crash and burn, he'd probably thank me.

scrumhalf

Once again the massed ranks combine to shit on the small businessman.

ROOG

We had this system in place in a company I used to work for. A bunch of us, (new employees) took a while to understand what the odd adjustment was in our pay slips, it didn't relate to the number of hours we had worked that month but arrived each time, a couple of months after we had taken Holiday! 

Back dating such a thing sounds horrific! 

ESBlonde

Surely on of the reasons that overtime is paid at a greater rate is to 'compensate' for such things as annual benefits. Next they will be asking for more holiday accruals so those that do more overtime will get more annual leave which they will want to work at double time and accrue more annual leave.

I'm a supporter of workers rights, but if you agree to a contract then you should stick to it (assuming it's legal at the time of signing/agreement).

Phil_aka_Pip

I'm with @ESBlonde - you could make it law from now on, but backdating it would be an adminstrative and legal nightmare on top of the financial grief. The only people who would benefit would be lawyers and accountants.