Taylor Swift vs. Scooter Braun and Scott Borchetta:

lustycourtier

euan said:

I find it weird to come back to this thread to find it insinuated that I’m an incel because I didn’t find it appropriate to similarly critique serial private jet users such as Musk, Scott, Kardasian et al in this thread 

It clearly wasnt directed towards you, but you know that. All her critics ever have is 'private jets' and 'she sleeps around!'

 

euan

Sorry in my woman hating rage I must have mistaken you directly quoting a post made by me and one responding to me and calling out incels as directly addressing me. 

Pjon

guitars4you said:

My daughter is a big fan of T Swift - So you can't help picking up the buzz of what is going on,...

 She has certainly created an ability to maximise everything that goes with the corporation and her name - How big a team she has behind this corporation I don't know - How ruthless is she as a business person and indeed how talented as a business person is she - But is there a 'silent assassin' in there as well - It sounds like she rightly wants to control every aspect of the Taylor Swift Corporation - With success comes power and is she now flexing those muscles...

For now the TS Corporation can do no wrong - She is obviously talented and works hard with a talent to maximise the whole TS package 

I have three daughters and a wife who are fans, so I get this stuff on a daily basis. Do you want to know what extra songs she played in her last few shows? I can text my youngest and she'll be able to tell me every word of them. I have no real complaints other than it all being a boring.  

But, I also share a little of your disquiet about the fact that it's a huge business, not just one person and everything feels very controlled. But that's not really a complaint, more of a view that Taylor Swift could in fact be a hologram and nothing would be any different to the business.

One oddity that I noticed while we had the Eras tour on, is that none of her backing band have any presence on Wikipedia. I thought it was interesting and googled a bit more, but there's very little about them. I'd have expected them to have some background with bigger acts, or side projects, you know, some sort of life away from Taylor Swift. They apparently have as much skin in the music game as some of the tiny, local folk-punk bands I follow. Odd.

monquixote

Pjon said:

guitars4you said:

My daughter is a big fan of T Swift - So you can't help picking up the buzz of what is going on,...

 She has certainly created an ability to maximise everything that goes with the corporation and her name - How big a team she has behind this corporation I don't know - How ruthless is she as a business person and indeed how talented as a business person is she - But is there a 'silent assassin' in there as well - It sounds like she rightly wants to control every aspect of the Taylor Swift Corporation - With success comes power and is she now flexing those muscles...

For now the TS Corporation can do no wrong - She is obviously talented and works hard with a talent to maximise the whole TS package 

I have three daughters and a wife who are fans, so I get this stuff on a daily basis. Do you want to know what extra songs she played in her last few shows? I can text my youngest and she'll be able to tell me every word of them. I have no real complaints other than it all being a boring.  

But, I also share a little of your disquiet about the fact that it's a huge business, not just one person and everything feels very controlled. But that's not really a complaint, more of a view that Taylor Swift could in fact be a hologram and nothing would be any different to the business.

One oddity that I noticed while we had the Eras tour on, is that none of her backing band have any presence on Wikipedia. I thought it was interesting and googled a bit more, but there's very little about them. I'd have expected them to have some background with bigger acts, or side projects, you know, some sort of life away from Taylor Swift. They apparently have as much skin in the music game as some of the tiny, local folk-punk bands I follow. Odd.

That's interesting.

I have heard that they are a very tight unit she has used for years and that for example on the Taylor's version albums the Eras tour band are playing whereas on her old albums it's session musicians. 

I'm sad enough to have A/Bed some of the reissues and I think the new versions are better musically and vocally.

guitars4you

Pjon said:

guitars4you said:

My daughter is a big fan of T Swift - So you can't help picking up the buzz of what is going on,...

 She has certainly created an ability to maximise everything that goes with the corporation and her name - How big a team she has behind this corporation I don't know - How ruthless is she as a business person and indeed how talented as a business person is she - But is there a 'silent assassin' in there as well - It sounds like she rightly wants to control every aspect of the Taylor Swift Corporation - With success comes power and is she now flexing those muscles...

For now the TS Corporation can do no wrong - She is obviously talented and works hard with a talent to maximise the whole TS package 

I have three daughters and a wife who are fans, so I get this stuff on a daily basis. Do you want to know what extra songs she played in her last few shows? I can text my youngest and she'll be able to tell me every word of them. I have no real complaints other than it all being a boring.  

But, I also share a little of your disquiet about the fact that it's a huge business, not just one person and everything feels very controlled. But that's not really a complaint, more of a view that Taylor Swift could in fact be a hologram and nothing would be any different to the business.

One oddity that I noticed while we had the Eras tour on, is that none of her backing band have any presence on Wikipedia. I thought it was interesting and googled a bit more, but there's very little about them. I'd have expected them to have some background with bigger acts, or side projects, you know, some sort of life away from Taylor Swift. They apparently have as much skin in the music game as some of the tiny, local folk-punk bands I follow. Odd.

About the band - I asked my daughter the same question - I would not expect her to know who the new Steve Gadd might be, or Nathan East - But I did ask who the live band are, who is the MD, any regulars from previous tours- And it was almost a question based on ‘is there a live band on stage’ - You know the band wouldn’t be mediocre members but it does all appear to be low key and so what 

RaymondLin

The backing band, i think half remained the same, there was 1 lead guitarist (with dark hair) who left, and there was a backing singer also left (I think she left to pursue her own singing career, which got nowhere).  But the other guitarist and bassist are the same as in the Fearless Album, the drummer is from 1989 onwards.

I am sure they do well enough not to need to pursue other things, if the truck drivers got $1mil each from the US tour, you can imagine how much her long-standing band members got.

Pjon

RaymondLin said:

The backing band, i think half remained the same, there was 1 lead guitarist (with dark hair) who left, and there was a backing singer also left (I think she left to pursue her own singing career, which got nowhere).  But the other 2 guitarists are the same as in the Fearless Album, the drummer is from 1989 onwards.

I am sure they do well enough not to need to pursue other things, if the truck drivers got $1mil each from the US tour, you can imagine how much her long-standing band members got.

I was going to say that a bunch of musicians talented enough to play on such a huge album only 10 years ago must have some sort of history in the music industry but your example has only increased my confusion!  Lots of record producers, not so many musicians!   

tony99

Pjon said:

RaymondLin said:

The backing band, i think half remained the same, there was 1 lead guitarist (with dark hair) who left, and there was a backing singer also left (I think she left to pursue her own singing career, which got nowhere).  But the other 2 guitarists are the same as in the Fearless Album, the drummer is from 1989 onwards.

I am sure they do well enough not to need to pursue other things, if the truck drivers got $1mil each from the US tour, you can imagine how much her long-standing band members got.

I was going to say that a bunch of musicians talented enough to play on such a huge album only 10 years ago must have some sort of history in the music industry but your example has only increased my confusion!  Lots of record producers, not so many musicians!   

I was waiting for the call but sadly...

guitars4you

RaymondLin said:

The backing band, i think half remained the same, there was 1 lead guitarist (with dark hair) who left, and there was a backing singer also left (I think she left to pursue her own singing career, which got nowhere).  But the other guitarist and bassist are the same as in the Fearless Album, the drummer is from 1989 onwards.

I am sure they do well enough not to need to pursue other things, if the truck drivers got $1mil each from the US tour, you can imagine how much her long-standing band members got.

Yes I've seen a few reports that indicate many of the band members have been with her on previous tours - Not sure what they do in between and if they play on her albums - ie do they work for other artists and/or have their own projects

guitars4you

RaymondLin said:

The backing band, i think half remained the same, there was 1 lead guitarist (with dark hair) who left, and there was a backing singer also left (I think she left to pursue her own singing career, which got nowhere).  But the other guitarist and bassist are the same as in the Fearless Album, the drummer is from 1989 onwards.

I am sure they do well enough not to need to pursue other things, if the truck drivers got $1mil each from the US tour, you can imagine how much her long-standing band members got.

It was the first thing I used to do when you purchased your vinyl album, or cd - Who plays on which tracks etc 

Snags

guitars4you said:

Pjon said:

guitars4you said:

My daughter is a big fan of T Swift - So you can't help picking up the buzz of what is going on,...

 She has certainly created an ability to maximise everything that goes with the corporation and her name - How big a team she has behind this corporation I don't know - How ruthless is she as a business person and indeed how talented as a business person is she - But is there a 'silent assassin' in there as well - It sounds like she rightly wants to control every aspect of the Taylor Swift Corporation - With success comes power and is she now flexing those muscles...

For now the TS Corporation can do no wrong - She is obviously talented and works hard with a talent to maximise the whole TS package 

I have three daughters and a wife who are fans, so I get this stuff on a daily basis. Do you want to know what extra songs she played in her last few shows? I can text my youngest and she'll be able to tell me every word of them. I have no real complaints other than it all being a boring.  

But, I also share a little of your disquiet about the fact that it's a huge business, not just one person and everything feels very controlled. But that's not really a complaint, more of a view that Taylor Swift could in fact be a hologram and nothing would be any different to the business.

One oddity that I noticed while we had the Eras tour on, is that none of her backing band have any presence on Wikipedia. I thought it was interesting and googled a bit more, but there's very little about them. I'd have expected them to have some background with bigger acts, or side projects, you know, some sort of life away from Taylor Swift. They apparently have as much skin in the music game as some of the tiny, local folk-punk bands I follow. Odd.

About the band - I asked my daughter the same question - I would not expect her to know who the new Steve Gadd might be, or Nathan East - But I did ask who the live band are, who is the MD, any regulars from previous tours- And it was almost a question based on ‘is there a live band on stage’ - You know the band wouldn’t be mediocre members but it does all appear to be low key and so what 

I'm not sure how Sherlockian you have to be to type in "taylor swift backing band" into Google, but you get a whole bunch of hits, many of which lead to bios, links to other sites, bits of issues etc. and the info that her backing band are style "The Agency" all hidden away in terribly secret locations like, er, USA Today

I wouldn't expect a youngster who likes TS to give a shit about the band, in much the same way a lot of people (guitarists excepted) probably couldn't name Alice Cooper's band over the years and so on.

A few random links from the first results page:

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/music/2024/03/22/eras-tour-cast-meet-taylor-swifts-dancers-singers-and-band-members/73020978007/

https://taylorswift.fandom.com/wiki/The_Agency

https://taylorswiftmovie.wordpress.com/biographies/taylors-band/

goldtop

I had no interest in TS until my guitar student asked me to teach her a TS song: The Man.

On first listen, it was just a bit of over-produced girl pop. Second listen to work out the chords: WTF - it's just the same set of 4 chords all the way through. Hmmm... why didn't I notice that first time? Because she and/or her producers really worked the arrangement. Smart use of repetition and novelty. I didn't work on the melody, but I think it's also diatonic throughout. Does song-writing get any simpler?

As I do a few strum-throughs to get the dynamics, now I can listen to the lyrics, and as @octatonic says above, she totally nails the thoughts and feelings of my student, a 30-something super smart Cambridge PhD trying to make her way in what is still a man's world. The double standards, the attacks, etc.

It doesn't speak to me (a bloke who has benefited from that for 60+ years), and I don't have any TS songs/CDs/etc. But I can see how it taps into a genuine and huge sentiment among young women.

Having now read the background to this dispute above, I like her even more.

monquixote

goldtop said:

I had no interest in TS until my guitar student asked me to teach her a TS song: The Man.

On first listen, it was just a bit of over-produced girl pop. Second listen to work out the chords: WTF - it's just the same set of 4 chords all the way through. Hmmm... why didn't I notice that first time? Because she and/or her producers really worked the arrangement. Smart use of repetition and novelty. I didn't work on the melody, but I think it's also diatonic throughout. Does song-writing get any simpler?

As I do a few strum-throughs to get the dynamics, now I can listen to the lyrics, and as @octatonic says above, she totally nails the thoughts and feelings of my student, a 30-something super smart Cambridge PhD trying to make her way in what is still a man's world. The double standards, the attacks, etc.

It doesn't speak to me (a bloke who has benefited from that for 60+ years), and I don't have any TS songs/CDs/etc. But I can see how it taps into a genuine and huge sentiment among young women.

Having now read the background to this dispute above, I like her even more.

She is an insanely good lyricist


These are great lyrics at face value, but when you realise they actually tell the story of a real life historical figure in quite a bit of detail and furthermore the twist that the house is actually owned by Taylor and she's highlighting the similarities in the lives of the two woman it becomes a real masterpiece of lyrical storytelling.

Rebekah rode up on the afternoon train, it was sunny
Her saltbox house on the coast took her mind off St. Louis
Bill was the heir to the Standard Oil name, and money
And the town said "How did a middle class divorcée do it?"

The wedding was charming, if a little gauche
There's only so far new money goes
They picked out a home and called it "Holiday House"
Their parties were tasteful, if a little loud
The doctor had told him to settle down
It must have been her fault his heart gave out

And they said "There goes the last great American dynasty"
Who knows, if she never showed up what could've been
There goes the maddest woman this town has ever seen
She had a marvelous time ruining everything

Rebekah gave up on the Rhode Island set forever
Flew in all the Bitch Pack friends from the city
Filled the pool with champagne and swam with the big names
And blew through the money on the boys and the ballet
And losing on card game bets with Dalí

And they said "There goes the last great American dynasty"
Who knows, if she never showed up, what could've been
There goes the most shameless woman this town has ever seen
She had a marvelous time ruining everything

They say she was seen on occasion
Pacing the rocks staring out at the midnight sea
And in a feud with her neighbor
She stole his dog and dyed it key lime green
Fifty years is a long time
Holiday House sat quietly on that beach
Free of women with madness
Their men and bad habits, and then it was bought by me

Who knows, if I never showed up what could've been
There goes the loudest woman this town has ever seen
I had a marvelous time ruining everything
I had a marvelous time
Ruining everything
A marvelous time
Ruining everything
A marvelous time
I had a marvelous time

If you listen to the lyrics of the album Folklore it's a concept album about a teenage romance with various characters who reoccur. It was my album of 2020, by some margin.

RaymondLin

guitars4you said:

RaymondLin said:

The backing band, i think half remained the same, there was 1 lead guitarist (with dark hair) who left, and there was a backing singer also left (I think she left to pursue her own singing career, which got nowhere).  But the other guitarist and bassist are the same as in the Fearless Album, the drummer is from 1989 onwards.

I am sure they do well enough not to need to pursue other things, if the truck drivers got $1mil each from the US tour, you can imagine how much her long-standing band members got.

Yes I've seen a few reports that indicate many of the band members have been with her on previous tours - Not sure what they do in between and if they play on her albums - ie do they work for other artists and/or have their own projects

She has been very prolific even before the pandemic, it was average an album every 2 years.  It was basically Record Album, Tour, Record Album, Tour, rinse and repeat.  So they were doing a world tour every other year since like 2008 right up until the pandemic (with lots of little shows in between like Talk Shows, Radio live shows, etc).  I would think there isn't much actual down time since planning and practice for the tour immediately starts after release of the album, so any down time would be in the months and not years and that would be very welcomed. 

stickyfiddle

monquixote said:

If you listen to the lyrics of the album Folklore it's a concept album about a teenage romance with various characters who reoccur. It was my album of 2020, by some margin.

Big sis. Phoebe Bridgers’ Punisher was better imo, but Folklore is a cracking record

monquixote

stickyfiddle said:

monquixote said:

If you listen to the lyrics of the album Folklore it's a concept album about a teenage romance with various characters who reoccur. It was my album of 2020, by some margin.

Big sis. Phoebe Bridgers’ Punisher was better imo, but Folklore is a cracking record

That was my number 3 after future nostalgia

bacchanalian

I think she is an extraordinary songwriter. I listened to Ryan Adams' cover of 1989 and realised that they were great songs that had been written on guitar and piano.
I recommend the Ryan Adams album to reluctant rock and indie fans.  (I recognise there is a dichotomy in recommending Ryan Adams since some of his behaviour towards women was made public) 
She has that elusive talent to be able to capture a feeling or situation in a few words. The writing on the new album is very strong.

We saw her recently in Dublin and I noticed the guitar player Paul Sidoti was playing a Kramer Pacer that he apparently EVH'd himself.  Seems to use Bad Cat amps. He has been touring with TS since 2007. He is the one dressed as a dog in the 22 video.

The Longpond Sessions on Disney plus is worth watching to see how she, Antonov and Dessner worked together on the Folkmore albums. 

lustycourtier

bacchanalian said:

I think she is an extraordinary songwriter. I listened to Ryan Adams' cover of 1989 and realised that they were great songs that had been written on guitar and piano.
I recommend the Ryan Adams album to reluctant rock and indie fans.  (I recognise there is a dichotomy in recommending Ryan Adams since some of his behaviour towards women was made public) 
She has that elusive talent to be able to capture a feeling or situation in a few words. The writing on the new album is very strong.

We saw her recently in Dublin and I noticed the guitar player Paul Sidoti was playing a Kramer Pacer that he apparently EVH'd himself.  Seems to use Bad Cat amps. He has been touring with TS since 2007. He is the one dressed as a dog in the 22 video.

The Longpond Sessions on Disney plus is worth watching to see how she, Antonov and Dessner worked together on the Folkmore albums. 

ive not watched that, but evermore is one of my favourite records by Swift. Thanks for the heads up.

Pjon

Snags said:

guitars4you said:

Pjon said:

guitars4you said:

My daughter is a big fan of T Swift - So you can't help picking up the buzz of what is going on,...

 She has certainly created an ability to maximise everything that goes with the corporation and her name - How big a team she has behind this corporation I don't know - How ruthless is she as a business person and indeed how talented as a business person is she - But is there a 'silent assassin' in there as well - It sounds like she rightly wants to control every aspect of the Taylor Swift Corporation - With success comes power and is she now flexing those muscles...

For now the TS Corporation can do no wrong - She is obviously talented and works hard with a talent to maximise the whole TS package 

I have three daughters and a wife who are fans, so I get this stuff on a daily basis. Do you want to know what extra songs she played in her last few shows? I can text my youngest and she'll be able to tell me every word of them. I have no real complaints other than it all being a boring.  

But, I also share a little of your disquiet about the fact that it's a huge business, not just one person and everything feels very controlled. But that's not really a complaint, more of a view that Taylor Swift could in fact be a hologram and nothing would be any different to the business.

One oddity that I noticed while we had the Eras tour on, is that none of her backing band have any presence on Wikipedia. I thought it was interesting and googled a bit more, but there's very little about them. I'd have expected them to have some background with bigger acts, or side projects, you know, some sort of life away from Taylor Swift. They apparently have as much skin in the music game as some of the tiny, local folk-punk bands I follow. Odd.

About the band - I asked my daughter the same question - I would not expect her to know who the new Steve Gadd might be, or Nathan East - But I did ask who the live band are, who is the MD, any regulars from previous tours- And it was almost a question based on ‘is there a live band on stage’ - You know the band wouldn’t be mediocre members but it does all appear to be low key and so what 

I'm not sure how Sherlockian you have to be to type in "taylor swift backing band" into Google, but you get a whole bunch of hits, many of which lead to bios, links to other sites, bits of issues etc. and the info that her backing band are style "The Agency" all hidden away in terribly secret locations like, er, USA Today

I wouldn't expect a youngster who likes TS to give a shit about the band, in much the same way a lot of people (guitarists excepted) probably couldn't name Alice Cooper's band over the years and so on.

A few random links from the first results page:

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/music/2024/03/22/eras-tour-cast-meet-taylor-swifts-dancers-singers-and-band-members/73020978007/

https://taylorswift.fandom.com/wiki/The_Agency

https://taylorswiftmovie.wordpress.com/biographies/taylors-band/

You are my daughters and I claim my £5!  

The bio from one of your links, picked at random:

GRANT MICKELSON – GUITARGrant Mickelson is a Nashville-based country, rock and jazz musician who specializes in electric and acoustic guitar. He sings backup vocals for Taylor and plays mandolin. Grant was born on April 30, 1984 and was raised in Sioux City, Iowa. His passion for playing the guitar led him to Texas, where he majored in Jazz Studies at the University of North Texas. In 2004, he moved to Nashville, where he studied music at Belmont University and began making contacts in the music industry. Affectionately known to fans as “Rooster,” he is the one with the crazy hair on stage.

Apparently, he left her employ in 2015 and has done nothing since. Or before. As I keep saying, very odd, and now I've decided it's worthy of a conspiracy theory.

thecolourbox

Isn't that just Nashville though, full of amazing musicians playing in bars all over the city but as there's so many within that field it's super hard to stand out. I'd guess you'd probably find the guy if you went there and hung around the music scene long enough