Dirt pedals and solid state amps

dragonb4llz

OK, confession. I made a post on reddit guitarpedals the other week saying I was finished but turns out I was wrong...

Basically I'm not happy with the dirt section. I know it's an uphill battle to use solid state amps but I use them a) for super low volume playing b) to get a similar sound no matter what amp I play on e.g. at home, rehearsal, gig.

Here's my rig: http://m.imgur.com/a/SSj00#

Epi LP with Gibson 498r/498t -> kl*n buffer -> dispatch master -> walrus voyager -> catalinbread 5f6 -> rat 2 > other pedals > Fender Mustang 3 v2 amp

I'm going to sell the dispatch master (having this before dirt gives a great glitchy overdrive effect) and get a Timmy clone. So new dirt section would be 5f6 -> voyager -> Timmy -> rat 2

I love my clean tone with the 5f6 always on at edge of breakup. Should I get the Timmy for my second stage drive or is there a better alternative? I play post-rock / ambient so full on wall of sound is what I'm after! Also, no fuzz please

EricTheWeary

I'm surprised you are using any dirt pedals into a Mustang, not because their own sounds are so amazing ( although they have a lot of them - have you looked properly ? ) but that they don't seem happy to have any level of boost into them, so you'd have to use them carefully. Anyway, don't have an answer for ya, just surprised by the question.

dragonb4llz

Haha yea, I got it after watching loads of reviews, especially from intheblues on YouTube. I've tried their presets too but in the end I actually only use a very low gain, tweaked eq twin reverb

monquixote

I had a Mustang, but one of the reasons I got rid of it was that it hated drive pedals.

dragonb4llz

Hmm that could be it. What did you find wrong with it? I can't get mine to 'sing'.

p90fool

I hear you regarding the consistency at different volumes thing. Still, I gave up trying to get drive pedals to work with SS amps in the end, and now use a 12w valve amp set permanently to its sweet spot, and vary my volume using a mic and a powered cab.

Same sound at any volume in any venue due to the master EQ on the PA cab. It's a Mackie Thump 12, which costs about £250 and can be stood up or pole mounted as backline, or used as my own personal wedge. That's less than I spent on pedals trying to fight my tranny amps.

ICBM

The Mustang is not a "solid state" amp, it's a digital modelling amp.

Yes, the basic technology is still solid state, but the way it works is entirely different. Often, digital modelling doesn't respond well to being given a totally different input signal from what it's designed for (ie a clean guitar). Well-designed, higher-end modellers do, but older and cheaper ones often don't take well to drive pedals at all.

Voxman

I had a Mustang III for a month and I thought it was rather good. The Fender models were very good although higher gain models were a little less convincing. The inbuilt pedal options didn't encompass a huge range but they worked well and I got some very pleasing results using the distortion pedals with both cleaner Fender tones and the Marshall and Vox models with amp gain dialled back.

A lot has to do with EQ settings and its well worth experimenting with the additional internal EQ option.

The MIII had a decent 12" Celestion in a good size cab and sounded bigger than its looks. Big downside for me was that it had no extension cab out which meant I was restricted to using it as a 1x12 only. I returned it and got a Laney Cub 12R instead.

But ICBM is spot on. Very few modelling amps 'like ' external distortion because they were not designed to be used in that way.

dragonb4llz

Thanks for the replies guys.

@p90fool. That's a good idea. Maybe I should give up the ss idea. Some kind of amp head/simulator would be pretty portable too as I'd just need to plug into a cabinet. Do you know of any fender clean type mini amps?

@icbm and voxman. Thanks I didn't realise that digital modeling amps had these issues. I'll try experimenting with the eq some more and especially a lower input level. Actually now I'm looking at it there is an fx loop - I'll try putting all of my pedals through there.

thecolourbox

I probably wouldn't do the loop thing if I were you! I'm almost certain it would sound pants and may even damage something

monquixote

dragonb4llz said:

Hmm that could be it. What did you find wrong with it? I can't get mine to 'sing'.

It just made every distortion pedal sound a bit like it was going straight into a mixing desk rather than an amp. 

I tried it with a Plimsoul, a Riot and a Liquid Sunshine which are 3 of the best pedals going and it massively sucked. 

The modelling on the G3 I've got is the same. I recently tried a Blackstar ID TVP and purposely asked to try it with an OD (a Boss OD-3 as it happened). That responded exactly as I'd expect and sounded great.

capo4th

Buy a good amp that makes you smile

monquixote

If you want a solid state amp (rather than a modeller)  that handles pedals then try a Tech21 TM60, or a Peavey Bandit. 

ICBM

dragonb4llz said:

 Actually now I'm looking at it there is an fx loop - I'll try putting all of my pedals through there.

thecolourbox said:

I probably wouldn't do the loop thing if I were you! I'm almost certain it would sound pants and may even damage something

Correct! While fairly rare, I have come across several amps - all valve ones admittedly, but i'm not sure that makes any difference - damaged by putting distortion units in the FX loop. If you put something with more gain there, it can cause the amp to become unstable, feed back on itself and self-oscillate, often outside the audio range. At best this will make the amp sound bad, and at worst it can blow something if it produces too much power in the wrong place.

A clean boost is the most extra gain I would put in the loop itself - no overdrive, distortion, fuzz or preamp-type units. It *is* safe to run an extra distortion unit or preamp into the amp's FX return without going through the amp's preamp first (ie guitar > external distortion > FX return) because that won't cause the same problem with feedback.

thecolourbox

@dragonb4llz how mini are you thinking for a small Fender style amp? I've a Mooer Bassman inspired amp I'm trying to sell, 5 watts only, sounds nice but too clean for me (it shows up my playing too much haha)

dragonb4llz

Wow thanks for the warning everyone. I had no idea I could blow my amp up that way. Luckily I've always just had everything just in front :-??

So I did some research last night and I think a micro head would be best for me. The hughes and kettner tubemeister 5 looks like a really good amp for the money. It even has a di out so I can just use headphones though an interface. Has anybody had any experience with it?

fretmeister

AMT Legend 2 series drive pedals.

Listen to Berg's demos and pick the one you like. Can't go wrong.

Beexter

I've used solid state amps for years (currently have a Tech21 TM60, Roland Cube 60 & 80xl) and ALWAYS set them to be clean. Any dirt comes from pedals in to the front of the amp. I've found this to be very effective & 2 or 3 drive pedals can cover a very wide range of tones. I do the same thing with my valve amp.

Having said that, I really like the idea of the setup posted by @p90fool - what a great idea.

57Deluxe

/\ yep - ditto

dragonb4llz

Pretty clear that valve is the way to go. SS looks like it can work but given the headache of finding the right combo I'll ditch the Mustang and go for a setup like @p90fool. I've got the Hughes and Kettner Tubemeister 5 in my sights now... Thanks for the input guys!

p90fool