Using a RAT - help me!

hobbio

I've recently bought an 80's RAT pedal off a forum member, and I'm struggling to get a good sound out of it. It's on a board that goes tuner>RAT>compressor>delay>resovibe>chorus>ditto>amp, and it sounds flabby and clippy whatever I do, especially with anything over 10 o'clock on the distortion. The board is pictured below (nothing is velcro'd down yet, I'm still sussing it)

Whether I use it with my Marshall MG30FX practice amp or my Peavey JD30-T valve amp (basically a revoiced and JD branded Classic 30) I'm struggling. It almost sounds broken, but I'm positive it's something in the set up. I've tried it going guitar>RAT>amp and I still get the flabby/clipping sounds.

I'm wondering if I should power it separately or something? My power supply is a cheapy, as are my patch cables. It's frustrating because so many people rave about them and I so desperately want it to work. I know it's powered differently and I've only ever used it with a conversion cable that I got from Amazon (nearly all the reviews were from people using the cable to power RATs so I know that should be fine) and I'd assume if I'd fried it it wouldn't work at all?

I'm new to pedals, only having used a Zoom G1XN previously. I have noticed that it's a bit better with single coils than buckers, but I don't know if this is relevant at all.

Help me please!

stickyfiddle

Have you tried it on its own, straight into the amp? All knobs at 12 oclock should be a good starting point.

Branshen

Not sure what you mean by clippy because I believe distortion pedals were designed to clip. Any sound clips?

ICBM

If you've tried guitar > RAT > amp and you're still getting the problem, either the pedal is faulty or the amp just can't handle it. I doubt that's true of the Peavey so I think it must be the pedal. Try it on a battery and see if it still does it, just to rule out the power supply - although if the other pedals work on it it's unlikely to be the problem.

The only other possibility would be if you already have too much distortion on the amp and the pedal is overloading it, but I assume you've tried it on a clean sound...

Megii

Sorry to hear you're having problems H (I am the said forum member who sold him the pedal). I did test the pedal prior to sending it, with a PAF-type humbucker equipped guitar, and used a power supply myself when doing that. Have to say I thought it was pretty good sounding, to the extent I wondered if I was doing the right thing. For me, it's not perhaps the best pedal for really high gain, sustained metal lead tones, more of a low to medium gain kind of area is where it seems best, and great for crunchy classic rock kind of territory, or blues maybe. Not sure what other RAT users would say regarding that?

I have always found the tone range is a touch on the bright side of things, which meant I would tend to have the filter control turned more clockwise to take out some highs - not a huge issue though tbh, and that's just my taste. Really hope you can find a way to get some tones you like though - "flabby" and "almost sound broken" especially, don't make sense to me.

hobbio

Thanks guys. I've just tried it again straight into the Marshall with no other pedals drawing power and it's better . I was using the clean channel anyway but I've dropped the gain about as low as it can go. At anything over 2 o'clock it still sounds flabby, I don't have a mic handy to record it but there's almost a pause before the sound comes through, especially on the bass end. I'll try it again later with the Peavey and see if that's just a symptom of the RAT being too much for the little MG30. Everything below 2 o'clock is giving me proper response.

The fact it's better alone points to a problem with the rest of the set up, but I'm starting to think it's just not the pedal for me soundwise. I'll keep playing with it though, because I don't think the pedal itself is faulty or damaged and I've read that dialling in a sound on a RAT can be tricky. I do need to get some better quality patch cables though, and maybe switch up the order. Compressor before it perhaps?

hobbio

Megii said:

Sorry to hear you're having problems H (I am the said forum member who sold him the pedal). I did test the pedal prior to sending it, with a PAF-type humbucker equipped guitar, and used a power supply myself when doing that. Have to say I thought it was pretty good sounding, to the extent I wondered if I was doing the right thing. For me, it's not perhaps the best pedal for really high gain, sustained metal lead tones, more of a low to medium gain kind of area is where it seems best, and great for crunchy classic rock kind of territory, or blues maybe. Not sure what other RAT users would say regarding that?

I have always found the tone range is a touch on the bright side of things, which meant I would tend to have the filter control turned more clockwise to take out some highs - not a huge issue though tbh, and that's just my taste. Really hope you can find a way to get some tones you like though - "flabby" and "almost sound broken" especially, don't make sense to me.

I don't think you've sold me a broken pedal mate, I just need to learn how to use it properly.

Megii

hobbio said:

Megii said:

Sorry to hear you're having problems H (I am the said forum member who sold him the pedal). I did test the pedal prior to sending it, with a PAF-type humbucker equipped guitar, and used a power supply myself when doing that. Have to say I thought it was pretty good sounding, to the extent I wondered if I was doing the right thing. For me, it's not perhaps the best pedal for really high gain, sustained metal lead tones, more of a low to medium gain kind of area is where it seems best, and great for crunchy classic rock kind of territory, or blues maybe. Not sure what other RAT users would say regarding that?

I have always found the tone range is a touch on the bright side of things, which meant I would tend to have the filter control turned more clockwise to take out some highs - not a huge issue though tbh, and that's just my taste. Really hope you can find a way to get some tones you like though - "flabby" and "almost sound broken" especially, don't make sense to me.

I don't think you've sold me a broken pedal mate, I just need to learn how to use it properly.

Keep me posted anyhow mate. For a long time, I wasn't too enamored with the RAT - I think because I was striving for a really smooth, liquid kind of lead tone, which I don't think it's the best for. But when I tried it out again recently, I think I had a more open mind, and just wanted to see what I could get, and I did get some crunchy, or just pushing into overdrive kind of tones that I thought were really rather good. I was using an old Yamaha G50 solid state combo amp btw - so the amp just totally clean (has plenty of clean headroom). Another thing that pedal does is the John Scofield kind of tone (for he has often used this pedal) - basically turn the filter all the way clockwise, or nearly, and adjust distortion to suit. Use a suitable humbucker guitar, add some "subtle" 1980s chorus, bit of delay, and you're there!  Do hope you can find things that make the pedal worth keeping though.

hobbio

Ok, problem solved or at least identified.

I've just gone guitar>RAT>Peavey and it sounds wonderful at all distortion levels and tone settings. I'd agree that max distortion isn't really what it's best at but the response it there all the way through the range and it sounds great! 

I need to get better patch cables and perhaps a standalone power supply, but more importantly I need to replace that piece of shit Marshall with a valve based practice amp. The RAT really doesn't like it! I think the problem is like ICBM said, the pedal is too much for the shitty, shitty, budget ss amp.

Anyone got any experience with these Blackstar HT-5C 5w amps? It does everything I want a practice amp to do, and £219 seems reasonable?

Cirrus

That pause before the low notes come through is totally normal, some rats really sag when you play hard into them. 2 o'clock on the gain control is much higher than most people would run it too - at that level it's basically a middy farty fuzz. IMO best start with the gain at 9:30-10, tone at 2:30 and volume at unity which can be anything up to 3:30. Then adjust from there. Rats are very compressed and can be bright so there's no need to run them any harder unless you specifically want that compression. It sounds like you don't!

hobbio

Yeah, I've been using it wrong into the wrong amp. Now I've got a better idea of what to do with it I'm going to have a play around.

Thanks people!

timmysoft

A rat into a classic 30 should sound mega. They can put out lots of low end, so its important to have a speaker that can take it.

hobbio

It does sound great mate, now that I have a better idea of what to do with it.

Thanks again everyone, wisdom to all.

ICBM

hobbio said:

Yeah, I've been using it wrong into the wrong amp. Now I've got a better idea of what to do with it I'm going to have a play around.

Although it may not apply if you haven't been using both at the same time, you probably don't want to put it before the compressor either.

If you're looking for a better practice amp, see if you can find a Peavey Classic 20 - long discontinued but not too rare. As you would expect, they sound quite like a Classic 30 but are much smaller and simpler - no channel switching or reverb. They have rather too much gain as stock but you can easily fix that with a single and cheap preamp valve swap.

The HT-5 has varied reports of taking pedals well - I'd be especially careful of putting something like a Rat (as opposed to a Tube Screamer-type overdrive) through one, although I haven't tried it myself.

hobbio

Thanks ICBM, that Classic 20 wouldn't work for me as I need headphones and line in on my practice amp, but I'll take my Rat to the shop with me when I try anything else out.

I'll switch the compressor too. Thanks again.

ICBM

If you're going to a Blackstar dealer and they have both, make sure you try both the HT-5 and the HT-5R, even if you don't need reverb - they sound surprisingly different. I found the R much more open-sounding, and it may take pedals better. (Or not!)

I really should test these things properly when I have my hands on them, shouldn't I .

Cirrus

Mostly irrelevant to this thread, but I really love compressor turned up into low gain rat as a lead tone.

meltedbuzzbox

hobbio said:

Ok, problem solved or at least identified.

I've just gone guitar>RAT>Peavey and it sounds wonderful at all distortion levels and tone settings. I'd agree that max distortion isn't really what it's best at but the response it there all the way through the range and it sounds great! 

I need to get better patch cables and perhaps a standalone power supply, but more importantly I need to replace that piece of shit Marshall with a valve based practice amp. The RAT really doesn't like it! I think the problem is like ICBM said, the pedal is too much for the shitty, shitty, budget ss amp.

Anyone got any experience with these Blackstar HT-5C 5w amps? It does everything I want a practice amp to do, and £219 seems reasonable?

why dont you just use the peavey and save yourself some money?

hobbio

I mainly practice when my daughter is asleep mate, or I'd use the Peavey all the time. I love that amp, but it's just too loud for my lounge.

meltedbuzzbox

hobbio said:

I mainly practice when my daughter is asleep mate, or I'd use the Peavey all the time. I love that amp, but it's just too loud for my lounge.

I sometimes use a Fender twin when the nippers are asleep.

With a gentle hand on the hair trigger volume dial its fine.

monquixote

How about buy a Jetenuator for £100 and then you can play your Peavey all the time?