Thinking of opening a guitar store. Am I insane?

CabbageCat

spacecadet said:

OK, some good feedback (or negative depending etc). 

So let me give you this scenario...

New store opens up. It's an actual store with knowledgable people you can talk to and of course visit. The gear you want is there and at the same price as everywhere else. 

Whilst visiting the store you will be fed endless cups of whatever you want to drink and wife and kids can even retire to a dedicated wife and kids room, air conditioned and quiet complete with Jeremy Kyle and Lego etc. 

The same store offers rig building help from designing a particular rig from scratch to building/ wiring pedalboards to customising guitars to your needs. 

Gear hire will be available from amps, fx, PA.

The same store has a studio that can offer professional band photography.

The same store hires out instruments for kids or a great buyback deal on unwanted birthday/ Christmas presents. 

There will of course be a music school there which will be an existing one that has several branches in the UK as well as Europe. 

These are just some basics that are unquestionable and would have to be there. The other bit for me is creating this in the UK...

http://www.theguitarsanctuary.com/

I reckon that store would get a lot of customers. Of course it will also be expensive to run. The extra staff and resources have to be paid for out of the margins on the stock. Ditto the rent on the presumably large property.

If you're going to be selling things at the same price as the existing big boys (assuming you can get the same cost price), with the same tiny margins, how are you going to avoid making a loss on every guitar sold?

Parker

The OP has gone very quiet!

I have a PMT near me. I sometimes go in for a look, but I get bored seeing the same line of '14/15 Gibson, PRS, Yamaha and Fender models. 20 years ago was a much more interesting time for guitar shops. A great mix of models and used gear. The dealership terms, internet and land rents have killed a lot of that now. St Michaels Hill in Bristol is a classic example of an area that once had a great selection of indie shops....all killed off by Soundcontrol when it moved in to town. PMT is marginally better, but still has no pulse.

You'd probably make more money having a museum of an old guitar shop and charging an entry fee!!

ESBlonde

Thinking of opening a guitar store. Am I insane?

Nurse, .... nurse, ....... nurse he's out of bed again.

spacecadet

Parker;441763" said:

The OP has gone very quiet!

Just sitting back and taking on board what people are saying. Some very good advice folks.

Hootsmon

Parker said:

The OP has gone very quiet!

his wife has finally located his meds

FelineGuitars

I love the look of that store in Texas and the comfy chairs and nice environment to try out guitars.

I often wish I had the room and money to have a select showroom for my own stuff, and have some nice amps and a comfy sofa to sit and try out the stuff. 

It certainly strikes me as a more welcoming place to try out gear.

Really good operations have someone with a strong but likeable personality and staff colleagues who share his outlook and expertise.

It's been tried here in the Uk with varying amounts of success - felt that Chandlers used to try to do that and maybe Guitar World do similar.

darcym

the decline of music stores in Bath UK (original Vintage and Rare, Duck Pinker and Son, Sounds great) leaves this small city without one, the new Vintage and rare is there, but it's an odd shop.

Two people I know who are in the music retail business considered starting a guitar shop and then a music shop after the decline of the final one in Bath sounds great, both are solid businessmen in the industry but not big names.

They worked out to open a guitar shop alone to cater from beginner to solid professional / higher end stock they would need £3 million and not expect to see profit for 3 years. They looked at the wider scope of a music shop in general (Dawsons style) to replace Duck Pinker and Son and based on the guitar business of £3 million, they thought totally against it.

If two professionals in music retail/trade do the sums and it comes to this level and they decide to not do it, I think that's worth being aware of.

sinbaadi

Open a guitar-bar.  Get people drunk enough to not care if you're 10% more expensive that Andertons.  

monquixote

People will not buy stuff from you unless it is as cheap as the cheapest stuff. 

I spoke to a chap who had just shuttered his music shop. He stated that people would happily sit in his shop talking to him and playing his guitars for 2 hours and then at the end of it say "thanks mate, but I'm off to buy this from Thomann where it's £20 cheaper!" and then laugh and walk off. Apparently people would get angry and call him a rip off merchant when he wouldn't price match enormous box shifters even when he explained a small bricks and mortar with expert staff has much higher overheads.

The shop the OP describes would have very high overheads compared to most shops and would therefore have to be more expensive. As a result you would be full of tea drinking freeloaders who would then buy elsewhere.

My sister runs a small furniture shop. The only way they survive is that they rebrand the furniture they get in from their suppliers (so the Toronto collection becomes the Ontario collection etc) so people can't easily browse their shop and then buy online for less. With guitars you can't really do that. 

The only type of person I could see being able to pull off the relaxed luxury showroom concept would be someone like @FelineGuitars who also owns the brand. A fancy showroom would up the cost of sale and so prices, but if you want his product you can't go elsewhere so he's immune to box shifters undercutting.

If I was to get involved in the music business it would be to try and become the distributor for something well thought of, but without a UK distributor like AMT pedals, Musicom Switchers, Quilter Amps, etc, or possibly import unusual stuff from Japan, or America etc to sell secondhand.

markblack

I called into this place that opened (moved to?) a while back in Shorditch vintageguitarboutique.com lovely space, nice stuff and the vintage basement is really nice. I'm interested to see if it can last, hope it can for the guys who own its sake.

IvisonGuitars

ICBM;440208" said:

You can't even make the traditional high profit margin on strings and picks now, because people just buy those online.

Recently I could buy Ernie Ball strings online, cheaper than my local independent shop could get them from his supplier...

Axe_meister

miserneil said:

ICBM;440208" said:

You can't even make the traditional high profit margin on strings and picks now, because people just buy those online.

Recently I could buy Ernie Ball strings online, cheaper than my local independent shop could get them from his supplier...

So why doesn't your local independent buy them from the same place?

Jalapeno

That Texas place looks awesome, I'd live there !  But it is in the middle of nowhere outside Dallas.

Differences in the UK - cost of land, cost of premises, cost of business rates.

If you could get premises, the rest of the equations are yours to worry about - my local was superb, but had to shut as his lease renewal was ridiculous - 10x what he was paying, and that was double his original lease after a review. A lot of high streets are near cartels with only one or two leaseholders - milking (killing) the small businesses.

Start small, online and secondhand/niche. 

While we're talking Texas - this guy operates from an out of centre strip mall, so low rent / overheads etc, and he specialises with not a lot of cheap stuff (and does web sales).  Has no staff other than himself.

http://infinityguitars.com/

Snap

I live in Sheffield, and there's a prime retail location called Ecclesall Rd. Full of independent shops and cafes, bars etc. Cool area. Consequently, the rents are huge, 20k a year and going some for a small retail space. Couple of years ago an independent guitar store, Wizard Guitars opened, and he's still going. they stock relatively rare second hand stuff, and the prices are not bad. You see all sorts of stuff I've not seen in years in there. It's a great shop, dead interesting, and something must be working cos he's still open. Lot of stock in it too. I think he has a second shop in Doncaster, which will be cheaper to run.

jonnyburgo

Getting people in is one thing, getting them to leave with a guitar is another. People (myself included) go in there to try stuff out and then buy it s/h or online.

VimFuego

actually, getting people to leave with a guitar is very easy. Getting them to pay for it is the tricky bit, but a skill that needs to be mastered if you wish to be a successful business.

A5D5E5

Axe_meister said:

miserneil said:

ICBM;440208" said:

You can't even make the traditional high profit margin on strings and picks now, because people just buy those online.

Recently I could buy Ernie Ball strings online, cheaper than my local independent shop could get them from his supplier...

So why doesn't your local independent buy them from the same place?

They would not get the same terms because they don't buy enough.  This is the fundamental problem of all small retailers in all sectors - how to compete with the large organisations that can negotiate (or extort) better terms for buying in bulk.

Small independents in some sectors also have problems matching the tax efficiency of multinationals though I don't know if that is such an issue for music shops in the UK.

Edit - I just realised your point - which is a good one!  I'll leave the comment though as it does apply in general.

hgtrs

Interesting thread...

Personally, speaking from experience, these days it is harder and harder to run a store with the big brands.

You need a serious amount of capital.

ToneControl

Best chance I think would be to open in a cheap-rent bit of central Manchester a shop that basically does what frailers does for acoustics:

travel to USA every few months and buy lots of used stuff, import and sell here

I assume the same profit is possible with electrics as with acoustics?

I would certainly visit a shop like that way more frequently than just another shop selling the latest range of each manufacturer

kin

 that sanctuary place looks fantastic, apart from the fact I've just seen about twenty five guitars that i didn't know i needed desperately