Pedalboard woe.

shaunm

After getting a whole batch of pedals delivered last week, I tinkered with them all weekend, spent a good couple of hours setting my pedalboard up in what I thought was the best order only to plug in and play today and be utterly disappointed. I set my amp so that I was happy with the basic tone but I am struggling to get a sound from the pedals that I'm really happy with (other than with the TC Spark). My AC Booster is great but I am struggling to find a setting that works as I change pick up settings on my strat. My MXR 78 sound good for crunchy chords but again setting it for lead work seems to be a struggle. Used together they sound great but it seems to turn into a fuzz sound rather than a thick drive tone? My Jimi FuzzFace mini sounds excellent but only when one of the drive pedals is before it in the chain. If they aren't then I get volume but not much Fuzz - is that the norm with these? The Big muff I had used to add fuzz to clean signals also. I sold my Line 6 DL4 and because I only used its analogue settings I thought that the Carbon Copy would cover my needs but again I am struggling to find a delay setting that is satisfying to me? Perhaps I should look at exchanging some of this gear right away but I'm loathed to as the amount of time I've spent speaking out this stuff and (thinking) I was getting the right pedals for the job have taken me an age. What a frustrating afternoon - GAS problems!

mike_l

More pedals is whats needed............

More seriously

How crunchy is the amp?

How is the amp set EQ-wide?

Are you playing differently to last week? (This is almost certainly yes, tiredness, stress etc all come into play)

Have you been in a loud environment?

shaunm

I play the amp pretty clean with mid -8, treble-7 and bass- 6. Volume wise it's not up high as I was just trying these out at home. Interestingly when I used the drive channel on the amp the MXR sounds better however the TC Sparks boost does not seem as great when compared with using it on the clean channel.

The amp is a Laney Lionheart 4x10 combo so it has a shared EQ section. When I switch between the two channels with no effects it works well so I know it's a pedal setting that needs adjusting so that I get consistency over both channels. 

Is it normal for the fuzzface to only react when it has a drive pedal in the chain before it?

One thing that works well is that the MXR does not colour the sound of the Strat, unlike the AC Booster which does add more mids. This is one of the reasons I thought the pedals would work well together as they are not that alike however I seem to be getting a fuzz tone when using them together irrespective of which way they are in the chain. 

I should really explain my board I guess. 

Guitar>wah>Polytune mini>MXR 78>AC Booster>Jimi Fuzzface>Trex Tremster>TC Spark. The Carbon Copy is in the loop.

I know tone is subjective but have you any suggestions from my set up?

mike_l

Fuzz's in particular can be very fussy about what's in the chain infront of them.

If you're using 2 (or more....) dirt pedal*s together than things can get very muddy very quickly. Have you tried using them individually? Not taking them out the chain, just only switching one on at a time.

Try turning the gain down (Yes I know I love gain....) on one or other....

*includes amp drive.......

Beexter

With fuzz pedals, they generally prefer to be first in line with nothing in front of them except your guitar...the way yours is acting seems odd, especially as it is a classic fuzz face circuit.

shaunm

Yes, that is what I thought I'd have to do so I set the MXR's gain to about 2 o'clock and the AC to 12. This is using the amps clean channel. The Fuzzface works well with this set up (or with either drive pedal turned on by its self) but the mix of the two OD pedals is still not quite right. 

The AC Booster is a great pedal and really helps to add meat to the bridge pickup which I like a lot however when I flick back to the neck the tone is a little too flabby. The bridge pickup is not that powerful on the strat I have but the balance is fine between them when just using my amp with no effects. 

It might be that these two OD's don't sit together that well to my ears or it could be that one of them is just not the right pedal for me? 

I'm not sure the carbon copy is a keeper either, I did find the DL4 a little more useable as you could manipulate the sound on the analogue setting a little more?

Perhaps your point of more pedals needed has a point......

crunchman

shaunm said:

I should really explain my board I guess. 

Guitar>wah>Polytune mini>MXR 78>AC Booster>Jimi Fuzzface>Trex Tremster>TC Spark. The Carbon Copy is in the loop.

I know tone is subjective but have you any suggestions from my set up?

I don't think any of the pedals in front of the amp are buffered.  Get something with buffer and put it early in the chain.  I would expect that to improve things to some extent.  Easy option would be to replace the Polytune with a Boss Tu2/3

RaymondLin

crunchman said:

shaunm said:

I should really explain my board I guess. 

Guitar>wah>Polytune mini>MXR 78>AC Booster>Jimi Fuzzface>Trex Tremster>TC Spark. The Carbon Copy is in the loop.

I know tone is subjective but have you any suggestions from my set up?

I don't think any of the pedals in front of the amp are buffered.  Get something with buffer and put it early in the chain.  I would expect that to improve things to some extent.  Easy option would be to replace the Polytune with a Boss Tu2/3

You don't want a buffer before a Fuzz though.

crunchman

Agreed.  The fuzz would normally be before the buffer, along with the Wah.

My pedal board sounded horrible with 5 or 6 True Bypass pedals in it with no buffer.  Adding a buffer made a massive difference.  I have it second in the chain after the Wah.

I've used a TS9 reissue and a Boss TU3 with perfectly satisfactory results.  I've got a clone of a Cornish Buffer on there now which does seem to add a little something but the Boss or TS9 buffer will get you 90% of the way there.

The other option is the EHX Soul Food which has a clone of the highly regarded Klon buffer.  It's a good sounding pedal as well.

shaunm

The soul food was on my list but I thought it too close to the AC Booster. I did consider the East River or the Glove as options. Would either of these work in the buffer sense?

TheCount

The AC Booster is a great pedal and really helps to add meat to the bridge pickup which I like a lot however when I flick back to the neck the tone is a little too flabby

Have you tried lowering the neck pickup on the bass side? might help

I have Lionheart 20w head and I struggle to get it to work well with pedals. If you've got that much drive on the floor I'd be inclined to get a good base tone from the amp and forget switching channels on it. Don't be afraid to be radical with the tonestack and the cut control, that amp needs it imo. If you can get the voxiness (mids) out of it it seems to take pedals better

Like others have said, fuzz first then maybe a buffer > Od > trem seems to work best for most people

monquixote

Fuzz Face pedals are notoriously picky about where they are placed and generally only work well with both of the controls absolutely cranked. 

I must say I didn't especially like the Carbon Copy either. It's rather too dark and murky for my tastes.

If you aren't happy with them and you got them from a shop then send them back there is no point in keeping stuff you aren't happy with. 

That's why I've typically bought stuff secondhand off the classifieds as you can easily flip it if it doesn't work out as you would want. My experience is that is doesn't matter how much research you do into what is the "right" pedal is, or how great the demos sound online, or even in a shop. Until it's integrated with your rig you have no way of knowing if you are going to like it.

My Tips Would Be:

Normally you would be wanting to treat your distortion pedal like an amp and stacking the spark or the AC Booster into the MXR 78. 

If you aren't using your amps distortion then you don't need to bother putting the delay in the loop. 

If you don't like the darkness of the Carbon Copy then try the Way Huge Echo Puss. It's a similar delay, but it has a tone control and the pots for the modulation are external (if you don't like the mod on the CC you may not have realised there are internal trim pots).

Personally I'd steer clear of Fuzz Face pedals. In my experience they are far too picky about what they work with, have very little tone shaping, or level and force you to adapt to their workflow to get the best out of them (Fuzz on full and work it from the volume pot) Personally there are many better modern fuzz pedals like the Wampler Velvet or one of the EQD ones which don't have the same limitations. 

The AC has a baxandall tone stack which means you can control the mids by moving the bass and treble together. If you are finding you can't get a good sound on both of your pickups at the same time it may say more about the pickups on your guitar, or the way they are set than the pedal. 

I've tried a 78 Badass and I wasn't overly fond. It's essentially a modified DS-1. Of the MXR pedals I much prefered the Distortion III, Custom Badass (more of a classic OD) and Super Badass. The Distortron is another really good pick for the chord crunch. 

It's usually the mid quality of the pedal that determines if it works better for the crunchy chord thing or singing lead and few pedals do both with aplomb. The stacked OD into dist thing works brilliantly for that and gives you 3 sounds.

Perhaps you should suggest the types of sounds you are going for?

shaunm

@monquixote some good advice there. Sound wise I bought the main bulk of this board for a blue rock sound. That being said I bought the spark and the MXR to add a little versatility for when I play sessions or do dep work. I never get asked to do anything really heavy, Queen level drive is about as far as it would go from session or dep work. 

ICBM

shaunm said:

I play the amp pretty clean with mid -8, treble-7 and bass- 6. Volume wise it's not up high as I was just trying these out at home. Interestingly when I used the drive channel on the amp the MXR sounds better however the TC Sparks boost does not seem as great when compared with using it on the clean channel.

The amp is a Laney Lionheart 4x10 combo so it has a shared EQ section. When I switch between the two channels with no effects it works well so I know it's a pedal setting that needs adjusting so that I get consistency over both channels. 

Is it normal for the fuzzface to only react when it has a drive pedal in the chain before it?

One thing that works well is that the MXR does not colour the sound of the Strat, unlike the AC Booster which does add more mids. This is one of the reasons I thought the pedals would work well together as they are not that alike however I seem to be getting a fuzz tone when using them together irrespective of which way they are in the chain. 

I should really explain my board I guess. 

Guitar>wah>Polytune mini>MXR 78>AC Booster>Jimi Fuzzface>Trex Tremster>TC Spark. The Carbon Copy is in the loop.

I know tone is subjective but have you any suggestions from my set up?

You've definitely got at least the '78 in the wrong place, even if you want the AC Booster to give the fuzz more fuzz. Distortion before fuzz and overdrive tends to sound like a mushy mess.

Try wah > tuner > AC Boost > Fuzz Face > '78 > TC > Carbon Copy > Trem, either with the delay and trem in the loop, or in front of the amp if you don't use much amp distortion.

If you don't need to boost the Fuzz Face, swap the AC and the FF.

shaunm

@ICBM I will give that set up a go this morning and see how I get on. Hopefully it will reduce the amount of mush I'm getting

shaunm

Well a huge thank you to all who commented. I've made some adjustments and it's made a huge difference. 

I have changed the pedal order to 

Guitar>Wah>Fuzzface>MXR 78>AC Booster>TC Spark>Trex Tremster>Carbon Copy. 

I've put it all in the front of the amp and this seems to make a huge difference to the Carbon Copy, it seems more lively and for some reason not as dark. 

Swapping the Spark and the Tremster around has improved the sound of the Trem especially when used as a part of a lead tone.

Putting the FuzzFace in after the wah has really made a huge difference, it now does exactly what it's meant to do and I can control it using the guitar volume. 

For some reason changing this set up has effected the AC booster but in a positive way. I've adjusted the gain to about 3 o'clock, the volume to 11 o'clock, treble to 1 o'clock and bass to 12 o'clock. This gives me a thick drive tone across all pickups. 

The MXR works well now when stacking it with the AC, it's no longer flabby sounding, but I do think a different pedal might be needed in its place. 

I have kept the amp on clean only and it seems to really work in this set up so thank you @ICBM @monquixote @TheCount @crunchman @mike_I @Beexter and @RaymondLin for your valuable input as it has turned this frown upside down. 

mike_l

If it was me, I'd be keeping the MXR and getting shot of the fuzz.

shaunm

I have a use for the fuzz, it will do a job but the MXR to my ears doesn't seem to add a massive amount to this set up. It does sound good stacked but there's something about it that I'm not that keen on, it's still quite thin sounding.

stickyfiddle

mike_l said:

If it was me, I'd be keeping the MXR and getting shot of the fuzz.

Nah, if it was you, you'd be keeping everything and buying 4 more dirt pedals

shaunm

I think it might be entered into the forum swap shop

mike_l

stickyfiddle said:

mike_l said:

If it was me, I'd be keeping the MXR and getting shot of the fuzz.

Nah, if it was you, you'd be keeping everything and buying 4 more dirt pedals

I think 22 dirty boxes in enough.

 

For now........:D