Paypal- freezing money in a dispute- Illegal.

Gassage

I've recently had a bellend in France fuck me over on a deal on eBay. Paypal have frozen acct despite me having proof of postage and delivery.

So, I spoke to them today, and they seem to appear above the law.

However, they're acting illegally- if anyone has the same issues then read this

http://www.independent.co.uk/money/spend-save/simon-read-is-paypal-right-to-freeze-customers-accounts-2360058.html

Sambostar

Probably legal as they are registered to some tax haven somewhere and as such, the online transaction isn't deemed as being in the UK and so bound by UK law.

Gassage

No mate, it's the Point of Sale that dictates the ruling law.

Drew_TNBD

Sambostar said:

Probably legal as they are registered to some tax haven somewhere and as such, the online transaction isn't deemed as being in the UK and so bound by UK law.

But all of the tax regulations on this are changing. Transactions are going to be deemed to occur whereever the purchaser is based.

Gassage

Drew_fx said:

Sambostar said:

Probably legal as they are registered to some tax haven somewhere and as such, the online transaction isn't deemed as being in the UK and so bound by UK law.

But all of the tax regulations on this are changing. Transactions are going to be deemed to occur whereever the purchaser is based.

Oooooo! Looking forward to buying stuff from the states and taking advantage of distance selling regulations.

Drew_TNBD

They're doing it to force the likes of Amazon to pay their taxes, but it's going to fuck over lots of small businesses and even bands selling through their own websites and the likes of Bandcamp.

ChrisMusic

@Drew_fx said:    ... but it's going to fuck over lots of small businesses and even bands selling through their own websites and the likes of Bandcamp.

Forgive my naivety, but can you explain a bit about how this will affect bands and band camp etc, cheers.

Gassage

Well all is well that ends well- I spoke to the Paypal peeps and explained the legal position (alistair is a solicitor!!) and pointed out that Shelly Richards v Paypal SRL had strictly prohibited this practice and found it illegal. They were actually quite nice and refunded me.

Drew_TNBD

ChrisMusic;450747" said:

@Drew_fx said:    ... but it's going to fuck over lots of small businesses and even bands selling through their own websites and the likes of Bandcamp.





Forgive my naivety, but can you explain a bit about how this will affect bands and band camp etc, cheers.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/internet/11295953/How-the-EU-is-throttling-online-business-with-idiotic-VAT-reform.html

http://www.stevelawson.net/2014/11/selling-downloads-of-your-music-in-the-uk-read-this/

http://www.stevelawson.net/2014/12/bandcamp-and-the-new-eu-vat-law/

Essentially the EU have just made it that bit much more difficult to be in an independent band.

ChrisMusic

Cheers Drew_fx, a little lite bedtime reading me~thinks, that should cure the insomnia, ta.

I really appreciate the links, it will be useful to get up to speed with this, worrying times though.  We really need the politicians and bureaucrats to make earning a crust more difficult right now.  They should show some intelligence in holding large companies accountable for unethical practices, while reducing the burden on those struggling away at the the coalface.  And holding themselves accountable for their own actions, but that would cause systemic paralysis I guess, another utopian view quashed, ho hum, and on with the day...

I am also assuming that this new regulation is not just an EU thing, but to be more globally instigated, whatever that means, with so much disregard for intellectual property and human rights shown by governments in many parts of the world right now.

Cacofonix

Not a VAT specialist, but tracking about I found this, which seems to make things a bit easier than you would think from the other articles.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/businessclub/11268706/Victory-for-UK-micro-firms-as-HMRC-tweaks-EU-VAT-MOSS-rule.html

ICBM

Drew_fx said:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/internet/11295953/How-the-EU-is-throttling-online-business-with-idiotic-VAT-reform.html

I don't doubt that this is a very serious issue, but it's unfortunate that this one reads like a shaggy dog story with the last sentence as the punchline.

TTony

ChrisMusic said:

the politicians and bureaucrats ... They should show some intelligence

But then they wouldn't be politicians and bureaucrats.

stickyfiddle

ICBM said:

Drew_fx said:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/internet/11295953/How-the-EU-is-throttling-online-business-with-idiotic-VAT-reform.html

I don't doubt that this is a very serious issue, but it's unfortunate that this one reads like a shaggy dog story with the last sentence as the punchline.

Of course - it's in the Telegraph! But it's still a ridiculous proposition. The next step will be a unified EU sales tax to make things "easier".

ICBM

stickyfiddle said:

Of course - it's in the Telegraph! But it's still a ridiculous proposition. The next step will be a unified EU sales tax to make things "easier".

I agree, but saying that we would be "better off out of Europe" and thus facing even more trade barriers to sell anything into the EU is cutting off your nose to spite your face, and putting it as the last sentence in an otherwise useful article is childish and reduces its credibility. I expected better even of the Torygraph.

Drew_TNBD

ICBM said:

thus facing even more trade barriers to sell anything into the EU

Citation required.

Sambostar

So...if we leave the EU, the EU will put sanctions on us, like mother Russia?  If that is the way it is to be, I'd rather be piss poor and cold in the winter, oh, look, I am already.  I don't want to be part of that corrupt club anyway.

The EU exports, we are the importers.  We can deal with other countries and take their nuclear waste and bury it in national parks and have big open cast mines like they do in Oz.

Sambostar

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/itis/international-trade-in-services/2011/sty-international-trade-in-services.html

The thing is that much of this statistic is rigged, due to us importing stuff we already can produce, very cheaply, hmmm, stuff like beef and grains for example, thanks to the stupid EU rules.  Strip the EU rigged fat away and you are looking at more 15%

The way it is rigged at the moment is that we import a steer, but also produce one here, that counts as 50% export to the EU.

Besides what are Lidl and all the rest of the foreign owned utilities and public services going to do?  They need us, not the other way around.

Besides countries like Germany that have no domestic market and rely purely on exports are at the whim of global trade and finance, they will crumble when the world goes awry.

TTony

The problem with the EU is (deep breath) that it tries to combine a good thing (barrier-free trade) with a bad thing (centralised government that is even more distanced from reality).  A *very* bad thing.

A "common market" that enables free trade between its member states improves overall wealth and standards of living by improving efficient production is a good thing - overall - for its members, although some individuals may be worse off in the short term as inefficient and hitherto-protected-from-competition businesses are closed down.

Unfortunately, the bad thing will probably result in the destruction of the good thing as people get totally pissed off with the interference of the brussellcrats and UKIP, the Front Nationale (et al) pick off the easy "anti-EU" votes and Europe goes back to being a group of individual countries with little in common other than geographic proximity.

Which will be the third time that Germany has failed to conquer Europe.

Sambostar

If you are a plant nursery here, you are up against the council whims and their taxes to expand, also DEFRA will try and close you down.  Meanwhile in Holland or Germany, you get grants thrown at you and you just passport off your infected stock and export it to the UK.  Germany gets to have open cast coal mines, coal powered power stations (Voted in by the people who rejected Nuclear).  It is the largest producer of lignite in the world.  They also have a tax on non national EU vehicles on their roads and exemptions to benefits for EU citizens.  What do we get?  A bunch of foreign owned, antiquated under invested infrastructure and brown outs, despite sitting on some of the largest coal reserves in the world.

Not exactly a level playing field this EU nonsense is it?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/11/germany-deny-benefits-welfare-jobless-eu-migrants

The more centralised the government is, the less the people are empowered to reject being screwed by global corporations

imalone

ICBM said:

stickyfiddle said:

Of course - it's in the Telegraph! But it's still a ridiculous proposition. The next step will be a unified EU sales tax to make things "easier".

I agree, but saying that we would be "better off out of Europe" and thus facing even more trade barriers to sell anything into the EU is cutting off your nose to spite your face, and putting it as the last sentence in an otherwise useful article is childish and reduces its credibility. I expected better even of the Torygraph.

It does seem bizarre to suggest that businesses that sell to Europe and currently benefit from not having to worry about import tariffs would be better off if we left and they couldn't sell across Europe. That's what they saying with the conclusion of that article. Which also comes after the earlier one they wrote about a small business threshold being retained yet seems to completely ignore it.
These rules came about from the whole desire to have big corporations pay tax for business they do in a country, rather than be able to pick and choose where they pay tax. Unfortunately the more loopholes you allow the more they'll take advantage of.