stock market....anyone dabble?

spark240

Phil_aka_Pip said:

spark240 said:

Has anyones workplace started the new pension schemes yet?

Are you paying in....is the company contributing?

Hows it working out?

No. And I'll kick bite & scratch to stay out of such a scam. It's designed only to line the bankers' pockets, there's no guarantee you'll even get back what you put in. 

But isnt that the same with any investment...unless you stick it in the bank at 0.0000001% interest?

Surely if the company are contributing too its basically free money...or am I missing something? 

thomasross20

My old company contributed 9% of salary, new one 4.5%. Gutted.

Phil_aka_Pip

spark240 said:

Phil_aka_Pip said:

spark240 said:

Has anyones workplace started the new pension schemes yet?

Are you paying in....is the company contributing?

Hows it working out?

No. And I'll kick bite & scratch to stay out of such a scam. It's designed only to line the bankers' pockets, there's no guarantee you'll even get back what you put in. 

But isnt that the same with any investment...unless you stick it in the bank at 0.0000001% interest?

Surely if the company are contributing too its basically free money...or am I missing something? 

It's free money for bankers, not for anyone else!

fastboy

Evilmags said:

Oh and FFS DONT DO FOREX. Pros make money on volume, not movement.

THIS 

My old man was a Forex dealer (Dollar / Mark) in the 70's and 80's for a major UK Bank and eventually worked his way through to head of global money markets. 

When day trading took off years ago I remember being out for dinner with him and a mate of his who worked on one of the dealing desks for him and asked if they were now day trading forex. 

On both counts a resounding NO !!! Says a lot if the professionals won't touch it with their own money doesn't it really......

Evilmags

Phil_aka_Pip;466096" said:

spark240 said:



Phil_aka_Pip said:



spark240 said:

Has anyones workplace started the new pension schemes yet?

Are you paying in....is the company contributing?

Hows it working out?












No. And I'll kick bite & scratch to stay out of such a scam. It's designed only to line the bankers' pockets, there's no guarantee you'll even get back what you put in. 





But isnt that the same with any investment...unless you stick it in the bank at 0.0000001% interest?

Surely if the company are contributing too its basically free money...or am I missing something? 





It's free money for bankers, not for anyone else!

Erm, none of the UK banks banking division even operates UK pension funds and only HBOS/Lloyds is a major player. Life assurance companies are the major players in that market. Bankers don't get a look in. Most low risk pension funds are run on 0.5% fees as well so it's hardly massive margin.

FreddieVanHalen

Evilmags said:

Did it as a job for 18 years and now run my own investments. In terms of tips I'd offer the following. Acquisition of knowledge is the first stage. ( like most things in life).

1) Understand the business cycle and it's effect on the market. Money, Bank Credit and Economic Cycles by Professor Jesús Huerta de Soto is the easiest and most up to date book on the subject. More advanced readers can attempt Pure Capital Theory by Hayek but it is tough.

2) have a reasonable understanding of economics. Man, Economy and State by Murray Rothbard is the most readable of the market oriented texts at beginners level.

3) Understand the nature of the time value of money and the mathematical relationship between present and future value. Know how to discount cash flows and how interest rate structure effects share values.

4) Understand the relationships between price, earnings and bookvalue.

Untill you get these four fundamentals, don't risk money. They played a big part in me not needing toward full time and without them your just punting.

Oh and FFS DONT DO FOREX. Pros make money on volume, not movement.

@Evilmags I appreciate the recommendations and have bought copies of the two economics books. I didn't expect it to be easy but there is probably at least 12 months of reading there to properly grok all of it.

Are there any other "dummies" sources you'd recommend to get started or would a better solution be just to do the hard yards with your recommended texts and accept that it's going to take as long as it takes?

Evilmags

Hard yards. For example, if you can't figure out roughly what a 2% increase in unemployment should have on loan defaults, and how that affects bank profitability through increased provisioning, then don't buy bank shares. Their are a lot of technically adept investors, so placing yourself at a disadvantage won't help your case.

Understanding the nature of capital goods, and how investment in them works on a basic societal level helps you judge firm's investment cycles. Try and visualise the economy and multiple stages of production, each trying to serve a social and entrepreneurial function while being manipulated by intervention from central banks. The key to this understanding is that it let's you differentiate between profitable investment and Malinvestment.

Malinvestment is when business gets the wrong signals due to manipulated interest rates. A recession is the process of those Malinvestments being unwound and losses recognised in the economy.

If you want a great yarn about one of the earliest market rascals and the real founder of economic science the tale of Richard Cantillon is a historical gem, especially from a writer like Rothbard.

dafuzz

Evilmags said:

1) Understand the business cycle and it's effect on the market. Money, Bank Credit and Economic Cycles by Professor Jesús Huerta de Soto is the easiest and most up to date book on the subject. More advanced readers can attempt Pure Capital Theory by Hayek but it is tough.

2) have a reasonable understanding of economics. Man, Economy and State by Murray Rothbard is the most readable of the market oriented texts at beginners level.

Cheers for the recommendations - found both as free downloads from mises.org

Wasn't de Soto the fella you went off to study with in Spain or have I remembered that wrong?

FreddieVanHalen

Evilmags said:

Hard yards.  

If you want a great yarn about one of the earliest market rascals and the real founder of economic science the tale of Richard Cantillon is a historical gem, especially from a writer like Rothbard.

Thanks, appreciate it. I had been a bit put off as I got the scholars edition of Rothbard on kindle (not free, doh) which has a long introduction that wasn't a great deal of fun to read and assumed a lot of academic economic knowledge. It took me fekking ages to plow through it and I thought that if the rest of the text was going to be like that I was going to be drawing my pension before I ever had a chance to invest in anything :-)

I'll bear your thoughts in mind and skip straight to the man himself!

Evilmags

dafuzz;471774" said:

Evilmags said:

1) Understand the business cycle and it's effect on the market. Money, Bank Credit and Economic Cycles by Professor Jesús Huerta de Soto is the easiest and most up to date book on the subject. More advanced readers can attempt Pure Capital Theory by Hayek but it is tough.



2) have a reasonable understanding of economics. Man, Economy and State by Murray Rothbard is the most readable of the market oriented texts at beginners level.




Cheers for the recommendations - found both as free downloads from mises.org



Wasn't de Soto the fella you went off to study with in Spain or have I remembered that wrong?

Yup. He's pretty much the world's leading Austrian school economist and actually studied with Hayek and Rothbard. The guy holds PhDs in law and economics as well as being an actuary and owing a life company/ investment stuff. I'd be a lot richer if id met him at 22 when I was starting out. His Hayek lecture at LSE is on you tube, in English and on the crisis.

He is the clearest writer on the business cycle and once you understand how the mechanism works so much else becomes much clearer. For Spanish speakers his basic course is on you tube as well. I feel privileged to have studied with him.

George Selgin, head of the cato institutes money and banking team, is also excellent and offers a different viewpoint.