HiFi (Speakers) Q

beed84

I agree.  If the Celestions sound better than the Bose on some makeshift stands, they'll sound a whole lot better propped up and positioned well on some real stands.  I say sustain the hifi GAS and enjoy the most you can out of your sonic discovery.

Axe_meister

Why is there such a massive amount of crap on sale at the moment that all claim to sound like be best thing since sliced bread yet are all Mono? E.g Sonos.
I see people spending a lot of money on these fashion items, whereas they could go to PC world and buy a nice amp (with streaming build in) and a pair of decent speakers for the same price.

TTony

Axe_meister said:

Why is there such a massive amount of crap on sale at the moment that all claim to sound like be best thing since sliced bread yet are all Mono? E.g Sonos.
I see people spending a lot of money on these fashion items, whereas they could go to PC world and buy a nice amp (with streaming build in) and a pair of decent speakers for the same price.

Different solutions for different requirements?

I've got a Sonos system - one of the Play5 (mono) speakers - for its convenience and portability.  Ease to pick up and take out to the garage, summerhouse, kitchen (etc).  Couldn't really do that with an amp and pair of speakers.  But that's really for background / distraction music.

For proper listening-to-music, I'm enjoying my re-discovered and ancient "proper" speakers, albeit through an AV amp that is probably not optimised for music either (had to delve into the settings to switch off all the 5.1 and sound-enhancement settings).

chillidoggy

I'm not entirely convinced that the speakers make the biggest difference to the sound, If the source is crap, they'll sound crap. I think it's the combination from source to speakers that is the key to getting what you want. By way of an example, I heard an expensive turntable set-up playing through an average amp and cheapish speakers. The result was exceptional.

I view it like a pipeline: it needs the same diameter for proper flow, with no increases, or decreases in that diameter. If you see what I mean?

ToneControl

For a CD-based hifi the speakers probably make the biggest difference I think.

e.g. Larger speakers will make more than a cheaper CD, or a lower-output amp

Sambostar

You really have to make your own speakers to get decent midrange and bass response you are yearning I would imagine.

I disagree with you there Chilli.  Whilst I always aspired to be an audiophile, I never had the cash or conviction to make the grade and it just wasn't in my blood (Couldn't just sit down and listen and relax long enough to make it worthwhile and had to pick up the guitar and start playing along to everything including the radio, can't sit and watch football for the same reason, as I start kicking my legs and running about, it generally pisses everyone else off, so I avoid it).

So MOR is about about my level.

So I've never really owned any monitors at home myself, but the Kef's compared to the Missions was like chalk and cheese.  I was like...So you have to be this accurate when you cut a track and lay down a guitar line?  The detail and space they revealed was amazing.  But the Missions were kind of a more rounded and pleasurable listening experience on their own.

Although that as from an Arcam Delta 290.

The first few Van Halen albums sound great through the Kef's but the production of 1984 sounds completely shit, disjointed and dry through them.  Nothing kind of ties in and there are big gaps in the production frequencies, it is almost as if the band are each playing on their own to their own track and then it's homogenized at the last minute.  Where as on the Missions this album would sound fairly well rounded and produced and listenable.

That is why I am MOR, because some of the best music just was craply produced, so extra expenditure will actually be detrimental to the listening experience.

I would like speakers that could deliver the raw power of Eddie Ojeda's or Jay Jay French's Marshalls turned to the max in the barn.

So it is all relative and depends on what your ears are craving really.

capo4th

Bose hahahahahahaha I love it when people rave about their Bose speakers. The only good thing Bose are good for is keeping the Mrs happy cos they are small and neat. You need a big pair of floor standers that can move some air. Monitor Audio Or KEF.

TTony

chillidoggy said:

I view it like a pipeline: it needs the same diameter for proper flow, with no increases, or decreases in that diameter. If you see what I mean?

That seems logical to me, although how you define "the diameter of the pipe" in hi-fi terms probably defies logical explanation and requires more subjective assessment of what sounds good, or doesn't.

To my ears, the old Celestions sound fuller and nicer (even when placed poorly and without stands) than the Bose system.  They were the only part of the pipe that I replaced, the CD source is decent quality and the amp is AV rather than hifi, but I think I've managed to switch off all the AV related enhancements that it introduces.

The bigger problem is that MrsTT has just returned home and given me the look, followed by the opinion.

"I've already told you what I think" 

.... "but you haven't heard the difference yet" .... 

"I won't hear a difference"

capo4th

The law of diminishing returns applies ... My wife is also aware of these parameters.

Sambostar

I think my home build kit 1970's Wharfedale 2' x 4' floorstanders sound better than the Bose speakers.

You can't create a man cave house with a wife, so you may as well bring her round to the veneered aesthetics of floorstanders or give up.

TTony

Sambostar said:

so you may as well bring her round to the veneered aesthetics of floorstanders or give up.

Her idea of listening to music is a James Blunt CD in her van (yes, she has a van) ... 

strumjoughlamps

Sambostar said:

You can't create a man cave house with a wife, 

I beg to differ.. our living room has a drum kit, a drum amp, a guitar amp, 2 electrics, 1 acoustic, an iMac, a maudio keyboard, a flat screen tv, a sony soundbar and sub, a hifi, speakers on stands, a ps4, a xbox1, a wii u, a xbox, a 55l fishtank, a dartboard.....these are all things my wife would choose not to have but these are the things I like so we have them. fair do's it's a large living room and my placement and management makes it still a nice sit and relax space nut its all there nonetheless.

I never really understand these 'wife gave me the stare' 'err indoors' stereotype comments.

Axe_meister

Alas we are at the mercy of the record engineers and producers who these days don't master for decent hi-fi but good enough for MP3 and shit systems, I don't like revealing Hi-Fi as they seem to be biased towards treble and upper mid range and very tight bass and to my ears don't fill the room.
This is where mid range Hi-Fi generally sounds better as they have to make it sound nice to make up for any budgetary short comings. But there is a lot a smoke and mirrors at the high end. The really expensive amps often have the simpelist of circuits with low component count (yes they are of high quality) so in theory should not cost the 1000s they do.

I have two setups at home, Living room with AV amp, record deck (LP12) and some Tannoy floor standers. It can make almost any track sound good/nice but maybe does not reveal all of the detail. Works well with CD/MP3 as well.

The other is in my home office/studio with an AVID audio interface into some M-Audio BX8. This is a very revealing setup but did not cost the earth but does show up the short comings on a badly mastered track.

A HI-FI nut friend of mine took a listen (he has a system worth about 10k) without me telling him the cost and thought I must have spent a couple of grand at least. He was very impressed.

ToneControl

TTony said:

chillidoggy said:

I view it like a pipeline: it needs the same diameter for proper flow, with no increases, or decreases in that diameter. If you see what I mean?

That seems logical to me, although how you define "the diameter of the pipe" in hi-fi terms probably defies logical explanation and requires more subjective assessment of what sounds good, or doesn't.

To my ears, the old Celestions sound fuller and nicer (even when placed poorly and without stands) than the Bose system.  They were the only part of the pipe that I replaced, the CD source is decent quality and the amp is AV rather than hifi, but I think I've managed to switch off all the AV related enhancements that it introduces.

The bigger problem is that MrsTT has just returned home and given me the look, followed by the opinion.

"I've already told you what I think" 

.... "but you haven't heard the difference yet" .... 

"I won't hear a difference"

oh dear

have you considered speakers you install in the wall?

Sambostar

True.

Typically internet speaker review these days.  The track is 'Bass I love you' by Bassotronics.  The track features on all internet warrior speaker reviews these days as a must.

Of course, it is obvious to the discerning modern audiophile, that playing the track 'Bass I love You' presents the most challenging of tests that literally can be presented to speakers in terms of complex studio mastery and complex orchestra reproduction.  You can here that the speakers really let's the natural resonance and timbre of the instruments breathe in this highest fidelity of high fidelity tracks.

An excellent review and demonstration of what these speakers are truly capable of.

Obviously heard through a secondary source of laptop speakers and being limited by YouTube in it's bandwidth all adds up to an even more credible and refined review.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0tkIQwkeHI

Phil_aka_Pip

I agree with @chillidoggy that the source makes the biggest difference. But let's say for the time being that we can't change the source (@TTony already has that set up): IMO the next thing that makes the big difference after the source is the speaker. The amplifier is IMO of least importance. Even the cheap jap stuff that was around in the mid 1970s to late 1980s has good enough distortion characteristics and a wide enough flat enough frequency response, and so long as it will drive the load you give it there's not much reason to argue about it - so long as you're not trying to make a JVC 30W amplifier drive Apogees ...

RaymondLin

The only way round getting round the wife with good hifi speakers is to place the speakers into the wall.  You can get them that is even painted over, you literally do not see the speakers, just plasterboard.  You might still need to have a sub or sorts but these can be placed anywhere in the room, in a corner, in any finish from gloss piano black to natural oak.  Height of a coffee table, down firing, it look like a side table. 

ToneControl

I thought a company should make a fancy TV stand that conceals the speakers within

e.g. inside one of these:

http://www.johnlewis.com/john-lewis-maharani-sideboard-l160cm/p230948092

http://johnlewis.scene7.com/is/image/JohnLewis/230948092alt1?$prod_lrg$

TTony

RaymondLin said:

just plasterboard

We don't have plasterboard walls.

RaymondLin

TTony said:

RaymondLin said:

just plasterboard

We don't have plasterboard walls.

put one in front of it