James Blunt being a legend again.

sunshinewelly

In my day job I had the pleasure of meeting Chris Bryant (he is my local MP) and i found him to be the most pompous , arrogant, up his own jacksy person i have ever had the misfortune of meeting. I don't usually detest people but after 30 mins in his company i took an immediate and long lasting dislike to the man. I have a new found respect for James Blunt though.

Lixarto

Fretwired said:

Kasabian aren't posh and seem to class themselves as working class having very few paper qualifications between them.

They certainly lack the quality of being musical.

Moss

...said literally no one ever

Fretwired

randomhandclaps said:

Fretwired said:

how many working class people are there in the shadow cabinet?

I was actually genuinely curious about this  as it's had got to the point where I would have said there were merely a few token working class bods in there.  I was quite surprised that the number of those shadow cabinet minister from what most would deem 'not typically working class backgrounds' was actually this low.  Obviously people's interpretations of what working class or privileged entails varies, but out of 27 ministers listed as being in the cabinet, these are the ones who most may consider non-traditional Labourists.

• Harriet Harmon daughter of a solicitor and a Harley St doctor & privately educated
• Ed Balls son of a Zoologist & privately educated
• Douglas Alexander son of a CoS Minister and a doctor & privately educated
• Chuka Umunna son of a solicitors and grandson of a high court judge & privately educated
• Tristram Hunt son of Meteorologist Baron Hunt of Chesterton & privately educated

So just over 81% of Labour's current cabinet come from working class roots and/or are state educated.

Not trying to prove anything, was just sating my curiosity whilst waiting for my cuppa to cool.

Interesting. I'm happy to accept 81% didn't go to private school but the likes of Hilary Benn were upper middle class. Tony Benn sent his son to a good state school. Angela Eagle comes from a working class background but Ed Miliband doesn't. I wonder how many went to Oxbridge?

VimFuego

the whole james blunt letter thing aside, Bryant, despite being a mahoosive hypocrite, does raise a valid point about needing to do something to help the less well off into the arts. And it's not just the arts, the whole unpaid intern thing to get your foot in the door seems to becoming all too common place*. What can be done about this and whether Labour are the party to do it I know not.

*I'm not saying people shouldn't start at the bottom, but they should at least get paid for it.

scrumhalf

if you can’t afford the enormous fees for drama school, if you don’t know anybody who can give you a leg up, if your parents can’t subsidise you for a few years whilst you make your name and if you can’t afford to take on an unpaid internship...

...If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire the A-Team.

Der-der-der der-der der.

randomhandclaps

Fretwired said:

randomhandclaps said:

Fretwired said:

how many working class people are there in the shadow cabinet?

I was actually genuinely curious about this  as it's had got to the point where I would have said there were merely a few token working class bods in there.  I was quite surprised that the number of those shadow cabinet minister from what most would deem 'not typically working class backgrounds' was actually this low.  Obviously people's interpretations of what working class or privileged entails varies, but out of 27 ministers listed as being in the cabinet, these are the ones who most may consider non-traditional Labourists.

• Harriet Harmon daughter of a solicitor and a Harley St doctor & privately educated
• Ed Balls son of a Zoologist & privately educated
• Douglas Alexander son of a CoS Minister and a doctor & privately educated
• Chuka Umunna son of a solicitors and grandson of a high court judge & privately educated
• Tristram Hunt son of Meteorologist Baron Hunt of Chesterton & privately educated

So just over 81% of Labour's current cabinet come from working class roots and/or are state educated.

Not trying to prove anything, was just sating my curiosity whilst waiting for my cuppa to cool.

Interesting. I'm happy to accept 81% didn't go to private school but the likes of Hilary Benn were upper middle class. Tony Benn sent his son to a good state school. Angela Eagle comes from a working class background but Ed Miliband doesn't. I wonder how many went to Oxbridge?

Yes, Hilary Benn is a really tricky one because although he didn't go to private school, he's school were certainly very specifically selected - including Holland Park.

The Oxbridge one is tricky because whilst I do certainly hold the belief that it's selection is tailored towards the upper classes but I don't think and Oxbridge education determines that someone can't be from working class roots.

stickyfiddle

randomhandclaps said:

Fretwired said:

randomhandclaps said:

Fretwired said:

how many working class people are there in the shadow cabinet?

I was actually genuinely curious about this  as it's had got to the point where I would have said there were merely a few token working class bods in there.  I was quite surprised that the number of those shadow cabinet minister from what most would deem 'not typically working class backgrounds' was actually this low.  Obviously people's interpretations of what working class or privileged entails varies, but out of 27 ministers listed as being in the cabinet, these are the ones who most may consider non-traditional Labourists.

• Harriet Harmon daughter of a solicitor and a Harley St doctor & privately educated
• Ed Balls son of a Zoologist & privately educated
• Douglas Alexander son of a CoS Minister and a doctor & privately educated
• Chuka Umunna son of a solicitors and grandson of a high court judge & privately educated
• Tristram Hunt son of Meteorologist Baron Hunt of Chesterton & privately educated

So just over 81% of Labour's current cabinet come from working class roots and/or are state educated.

Not trying to prove anything, was just sating my curiosity whilst waiting for my cuppa to cool.

Interesting. I'm happy to accept 81% didn't go to private school but the likes of Hilary Benn were upper middle class. Tony Benn sent his son to a good state school. Angela Eagle comes from a working class background but Ed Miliband doesn't. I wonder how many went to Oxbridge?

Yes, Hilary Benn is a really tricky one because although he didn't go to private school, he's school were certainly very specifically selected - including Holland Park.

The Oxbridge one is tricky because whilst I do certainly hold the belief that it's selection is tailored towards the upper classes but I don't think and Oxbridge education determines that someone can't be from working class roots.

I'm proof of that. Went to the local comp and ended up at Oxford. I'd still consider private education for my future kids because I'm prepared to accept it might be better. I also wouldn't say that's 100% true, and I'd want to learn a huge amount about it before deciding either way.

Fretwired

stickyfiddle said:

I'm proof of that. Went to the local comp and ended up at Oxford. I'd still consider private education for my future kids because I'm prepared to accept it might be better. I also wouldn't say that's 100% true, and I'd want to learn a huge amount about it before deciding either way.

There's nothing wrong with going to Oxbridge. That said I think those that represent us should come from all walks of life and not a narrow band. It seems that Oxbridge PPE graduates with little experience of the real world get the top jobs. We need more people like Alan Johnson (postman and union leader), Michael Heseltine (ran a large business), Norman Tebbit (fighter pilot/airline pilot), Paddy Ashdown (army officer), John Prescott (merchant seaman and union leader) in parliament. Cameron, Clegg and Miliband are basically the same.

digitalscream

VimFuego said:

the whole james blunt letter thing aside, Bryant, despite being a mahoosive hypocrite, does raise a valid point about needing to do something to help the less well off into the arts. And it's not just the arts, the whole unpaid intern thing to get your foot in the door seems to becoming all too common place*. What can be done about this and whether Labour are the party to do it I know not.

*I'm not saying people shouldn't start at the bottom, but they should at least get paid for it.

It's a valid point, but the current approach is to use positive discrimination to get there (ie you get help and encouragement, but only if you're on benefits etc). What actually needs to happen is that the arts should become more pervasive - in the case of music, for example, start killing the legislation that prevents a huge number of potential venues from ever having live music, and is closing many existing venues.

Nobody is ever going to see the point in being a musician if it's nigh-impossible to actually get out there and play.

Fretwired

VimFuego said:

the whole james blunt letter thing aside, Bryant, despite being a mahoosive hypocrite, does raise a valid point about needing to do something to help the less well off into the arts. And it's not just the arts, the whole unpaid intern thing to get your foot in the door seems to becoming all too common place*. What can be done about this and whether Labour are the party to do it I know not.

*I'm not saying people shouldn't start at the bottom, but they should at least get paid for it.

Unfortunately Bryant has confirmed that if Labour came to power it would not reverse the £83 million of cuts imposed on the arts by the coalition. So in short Labour doesn't have an arts policy and he should shut up. The problem starts with education - a lack of funding for the arts in secondary schools and is exacerbated by a lack of grants to help talented poorer children get into drama or music schools.

It may be an area that wealthy patrons might want to contribute to - Tony Blair has £50 million in the bank.

stickyfiddle

Fretwired said:

stickyfiddle said:

I'm proof of that. Went to the local comp and ended up at Oxford. I'd still consider private education for my future kids because I'm prepared to accept it might be better. I also wouldn't say that's 100% true, and I'd want to learn a huge amount about it before deciding either way.

There's nothing wrong with going to Oxbridge. That said I think those that represent us should come from all walks of life and not a narrow band. It seems that Oxbridge PPE graduates with little experience of the real world get the top jobs. We need more people like Alan Johnson (postman and union leader), Michael Heseltine (ran a large business), Norman Tebbit (fighter pilot/airline pilot), Paddy Ashdown (army officer), John Prescott (merchant seaman and union leader) in parliament. Cameron, Clegg and Miliband are basically the same.

Well that's certainly true. I know a significant number of fellow alumni who've gone into politics. Not one of them has ever had a private job. Most haven't ever had a job outside politics.

xSkarloey

There are a lot of bright, decent kids from all backgrounds who go to Oxford and Cambridge.

None of them end up going into politics.

RocknRollDave

I don't give a flying toss what "class" a musician is, or what kind of a school they went to, unless they write a great song about it, such as Baggy Trousers or Another Brick In The Wall Part II.

Axe_meister

Thing is you want somebody with a good education and/or management experience to essentially manage the country. The problem is as always those who want to go into politics are the last people who should.

Moe_Zambeek

Please god no more buffoons like John Prescott!  

I'd like to see where arts funding goes. In my uneducated opinion a lot seems to go a. In London rather than the regions and b. On what the 'cognoscenti' consider arts, i.e. Their preferred form of entertainment - theatre, opera and ballet, rather than on grass-roots anything.

dchwhite

randomhandclaps said:

Fretwired said:

randomhandclaps said:

Fretwired said:

how many working class people are there in the shadow cabinet?

I was actually genuinely curious about this  as it's had got to the point where I would have said there were merely a few token working class bods in there.  I was quite surprised that the number of those shadow cabinet minister from what most would deem 'not typically working class backgrounds' was actually this low.  Obviously people's interpretations of what working class or privileged entails varies, but out of 27 ministers listed as being in the cabinet, these are the ones who most may consider non-traditional Labourists.

• Harriet Harmon daughter of a solicitor and a Harley St doctor & privately educated
• Ed Balls son of a Zoologist & privately educated
• Douglas Alexander son of a CoS Minister and a doctor & privately educated
• Chuka Umunna son of a solicitors and grandson of a high court judge & privately educated
• Tristram Hunt son of Meteorologist Baron Hunt of Chesterton & privately educated

So just over 81% of Labour's current cabinet come from working class roots and/or are state educated.

Not trying to prove anything, was just sating my curiosity whilst waiting for my cuppa to cool.

Interesting. I'm happy to accept 81% didn't go to private school but the likes of Hilary Benn were upper middle class. Tony Benn sent his son to a good state school. Angela Eagle comes from a working class background but Ed Miliband doesn't. I wonder how many went to Oxbridge?

Yes, Hilary Benn is a really tricky one because although he didn't go to private school, he's school were certainly very specifically selected - including Holland Park.

The Oxbridge one is tricky because whilst I do certainly hold the belief that it's selection is tailored towards the upper classes but I don't think and Oxbridge education determines that someone can't be from working class roots.

It's possible to attend a public school & still be working class. I assume it's to do with public schools having a charitable legal status, but they do generally have a small number of free or nearly-free places each year for children from unmoneyed backgrounds who can pass the entrance exams.

Jez6345789

Personally think politicians should keep out of the arts.

Once you give a fake leg up to a social underclass trying to express themselves or their situation you lose that integrity and honesty that they created. 

`the best dragged themselves to the top. 

In the modern world you don't even need a deal to be an internet artist. If your work is that good and original you can release tracks or images without the machinery of corporate funded arts or grants from centre.

Heartfeltdawn

Fretwired said:

Unfortunately Bryant has confirmed that if Labour came to power it would not reverse the £83 million of cuts imposed on the arts by the coalition. So in short Labour doesn't have an arts policy and he should shut up. The problem starts with education - a lack of funding for the arts in secondary schools and is exacerbated by a lack of grants to help talented poorer children get into drama or music schools.

It may be an area that wealthy patrons might want to contribute to - Tony Blair has £50 million in the bank.

A donation would indeed be a start to make up for his decidedly shady tax affairs. 

From reading the words of the artistic director at RADA and other heads, it isn't that the non-privately educated kids aren't getting into RADA and the like. It's that they don't have the finances to be able to dedicate themselves to the arts once they depart. The kids with wealthy parents can manage, those who don't can't. It's similar to the issue with internships. 

Moe_Zambeek said:

Please god no more buffoons like John Prescott!  

I'd like to see where arts funding goes. In my uneducated opinion a lot seems to go a. In London rather than the regions and b. On what the 'cognoscenti' consider arts, i.e. Their preferred form of entertainment - theatre, opera and ballet, rather than on grass-roots anything.

http://www.gpsculture.co.uk/

http://www.thestage.co.uk/news/2014/10/arts-funding-gap-london-regions-will-widen-report-claims/

Jez6345789 said:

Personally think politicians should keep out of the arts.

Once you give a fake leg up to a social underclass trying to express themselves or their situation you lose that integrity and honesty that they created. 

`the best dragged themselves to the top. 

In the modern world you don't even need a deal to be an internet artist. If your work is that good and original you can release tracks or images without the machinery of corporate funded arts or grants from centre.

Yes, any fuckwit can be an internet artist. Being paid enough to focus on your art though is a different matter. 

Drew_TNBD

Moe_Zambeek said:

Please god no more buffoons like John Prescott!  

I'd like to see where arts funding goes. In my uneducated opinion a lot seems to go a. In London rather than the regions and b. On what the 'cognoscenti' consider arts, i.e. Their preferred form of entertainment - theatre, opera and ballet, rather than on grass-roots anything.

The rest of the UK gets much more than London does, which is odd considering London has the most galleries and the most artists living in it.