Unsound: extended trailer rough cut: collapse of the music business

Fretwired

Thought provoking insight to the failure of the music industry - the creators need some funding to edit it. Worth watching the trailer.

http://vimeo.com/58809695

Fretwired

Link now fixed.

johnnyurq

Looks very interesting @Fretwired.

I am still waiting for this one too which is needing funds to finish.

http://wreckingcrew.tv/

ChrisMusic

What a brilliant opening quote from Hunter S Thompson.  Most excellent and thought provoking video Fretwired.

The music business has always been screwed, that's why I stopped playing all those years ago, disillusionment, naieve but true.

The whole business model for the creative industries needs reappraising, but those in control sit unreactive until crisis point. That's their crisis not ours, ours never comes into the equation unfortunately.

The advent of 3D printing and other technologies will raise the same issues in many other industries.

The western view of economics and reward for creativity needs to, and inevitably will have to change.

Drew_TNBD

The worst thing is, it isn't your gran or your mum stealing all this music. It isn't the X Factor generation stealing it. They're getting it for free via the television, streaming services, the car radio, and the shitty little boom-box that sits in the corner of the warehouse office job that they work 9-5pm all week.

And even if they are, it's not the problem. They're not your target audience - they're not mine anyway.

My target audience (by the very nature of our music) are OTHER creative types.

The problem is that it's the musicians who are stealing from other musicians. Chances are most of you pirate music, or television shows, or kindle books. Or you listen on Spotify or stream on Bandcamp. I do it as well, it's just the way we've learned to live our lives.

It does suck. But hey, I'm sure someone will be along very shortly to say that it's always been difficult for musicians, and that they've been fat cats for too long, and that music should be global and shouldn't be only for those who have money, blah blah blah blah... all typed out on a brand new iPhone or iPad with as much sincerity as a psychopath.

The business model hasn't changed. The monolithic entities became Bandcamp and CDBaby. The advertising exec's who'd run a campaign for you became Facebook adverts and Twitter followers. The system is exactly the same. The only difference now, the nets are big enough to capture more fish. That's how they want it. They don't want you to be successful, that doesn't help them.

Fretwired

I feel sorry for young bands and artists who can't make ends meet. It's affecting other areas like journalism - I'm glad I don't depend on writing to make a living. Papers are paying as low as £25 for an article and much of the stuff is now written for free.

@Drew_fx - good points well made .. have a wisdom .. :-)

FreddieVanHalen

Maybe I'm a mug but I still buy music, but then I'm not of the internet generation.

The video said music sales were down 50% I agree that's not a great number but doesn't that mean there is still 50% left? Hasn't it always been the way that only a small number of artists at the tip of the iceberg make decent money with most others struggling? 

It does seem a shame though, that when for the first time in history where there is meant to be information democracy, and when it's as cheap as it's ever been to be able to record and distribute independently, musicians have still ended up getting hoovered into the musical supermarkets of iTunes, amazon and the streaming services. 

Agree with the trailer though, it's not just music, I know a few folks working for specialist independent book publishing companies and they're getting screwed by illegal downloads AND amazon. 

Dunno, wish I had an answer to this....I do worry though having a victim mentality will not help anyone though.

I mean, the bit about having to tour impacting your family - ok I agree that's not great but the same problem applies to oil rig workers, management consultants, long distance lorry drivers blah blah blah The worlds always been fekking tough!

Sporky

Drew_fx said:

The problem is that it's the musicians who are stealing from other musicians. Chances are most of you pirate music, or television shows, or kindle books. Or you listen on Spotify or stream on Bandcamp. I do it as well, it's just the way we've learned to live our lives.

I thought - and I could be wrong - that Bandcamp and Spotify listens do result in income for the musician - naff-all, perhaps, but some?

I don't think I have anything - games, music, films - that wasn't either deliberately given away by the creator, or paid for by me. I don't think I'm enormously unusual in this either (though I know that there are people who are the complete opposite).

Drew_TNBD

Sporky said:

Drew_fx said:

The problem is that it's the musicians who are stealing from other musicians. Chances are most of you pirate music, or television shows, or kindle books. Or you listen on Spotify or stream on Bandcamp. I do it as well, it's just the way we've learned to live our lives.

I thought - and I could be wrong - that Bandcamp and Spotify listens do result in income for the musician - naff-all, perhaps, but some?

I don't think I have anything - games, music, films - that wasn't either deliberately given away by the creator, or paid for by me. I don't think I'm enormously unusual in this either (though I know that there are people who are the complete opposite).

Bandcamp is an *excellent* platform, and we use it. Their model is basically along the lines of every 10th sale they take; it works out to a 15% fee, something like that.

We're also on Spotify. We don't get fuck all from it, except everyone's favourite excuse for putting up with it; you may not get paid, but you get exposure you wouldn't otherwise get! Quit ya bitchin' and write me a song peasant!!

It's not a terribly good outlet for the artist, which is why plenty of artists have pulled their stuff. If we were bigger, we'd pull out stuff too.

Here are some stats for ya from our last CDBaby invoice:

$19.11 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through Apple iTunes
$6.37 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through Amazon MP3-DE
$6.34 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through iTunes-Europe
$5.79 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through Amazon MP3-UK
$2.46 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through Spotify
$2.43 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through Emusic
$1.99 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through Deezer
$1.82 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through Spotify
$1.80 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through Spotify
$1.58 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through Spotify
$1.48 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through Spotify
$1.24 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through Spotify
$1.18 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through Spotify
$1.06 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through Spotify
$0.92 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through Spotify
$0.80 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through Spotify
$0.80 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through Spotify
$0.78 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through Spotify
$0.73 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through Spotify
$0.70 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through Spotify
$0.66 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through Xbox Music
$0.65 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through Spotify
$0.65 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through Spotify
$0.63 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through Spotify
$0.56 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through Spotify
$0.53 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through Spotify
$0.51 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through Spotify
$0.50 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through Spotify
$0.48 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through Spotify
$0.43 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through Spotify
$0.42 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through Spotify
$0.40 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through Spotify
$0.31 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through Spotify
$0.29 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through Rhapsody
$0.27 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through Spotify
$0.26 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through Spotify
$0.25 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through MediaNet
$0.23 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through Deezer
$0.21 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through MediaNet
$0.19 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through MediaNet
$0.10 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through Deezer
$0.08 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through Xbox Music
$0.07 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through MediaNet
$0.06 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through iTunes Match - Americas
$0.06 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through iTunes Match - Americas
$0.06 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through Xbox Music
$0.05 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through iTunes Match - Americas
$0.04 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through iTunes Match - Americas
$0.04 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through MediaNet
$0.04 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through Rdio
$0.03 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through Last.fm
$0.03 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through iTunes Match - Americas
$0.03 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through iTunes Match - Canada
$0.02 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through Last.fm
$0.02 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through iTunes Match - Canada
$0.02 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through iTunes Match - UK
$0.01 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through iTunes Match - Rest of World
$0.01 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through iTunes Match - Canada
$0.01 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through iTunes Match - Europe
$0.01 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through iTunes Match - UK
$0.01 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through iTunes Match - Switzerland
$0.01 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through iTunes Match - Americas
$0.01 for DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION SALES through iTunes Match - Switzerland

I'm sure from that you could probably extrapolate our sales figures across the past 4 years or so. But suffice to say, iTunes and direct sales make up the bulk of our income (such as it is!) and Spotify is right at the bottom. You get something like 0.00458pence per-play, so unless you're Toyah Wilcox or Judas Priest or some bullshit like that, you aint making any money!

Fretwired

@Drew_fx I bought a couple of your albums on iTunes ... I trust you got paid .. :-)

guitarfishbay

Drew_fx said:

The worst thing is, it isn't your gran or your mum stealing all this music. It isn't the X Factor generation stealing it. They're getting it for free via the television, streaming services, the car radio, and the shitty little boom-box that sits in the corner of the warehouse office job that they work 9-5pm all week.

And even if they are, it's not the problem. They're not your target audience - they're not mine anyway.

My target audience (by the very nature of our music) are OTHER creative types.

The problem is that it's the musicians who are stealing from other musicians. Chances are most of you pirate music, or television shows, or kindle books. Or you listen on Spotify or stream on Bandcamp. I do it as well, it's just the way we've learned to live our lives.

It does suck. But hey, I'm sure someone will be along very shortly to say that it's always been difficult for musicians, and that they've been fat cats for too long, and that music should be global and shouldn't be only for those who have money, blah blah blah blah... all typed out on a brand new iPhone or iPad with as much sincerity as a psychopath.

The business model hasn't changed. The monolithic entities became Bandcamp and CDBaby. The advertising exec's who'd run a campaign for you became Facebook adverts and Twitter followers. The system is exactly the same. The only difference now, the nets are big enough to capture more fish. That's how they want it. They don't want you to be successful, that doesn't help them.

People don't like spending money on things if there is an easy way to not pay for it.  It is as simple as that.

Most people would find it too hard and too risky to try and steal anything physical but mp3/film downloads are so incredibly easy to obtain with so little risk that most people can't justify not stealing it when compared with spending their money on other things they want, i.e. your iPad example.

I have honestly heard people say things along the line of "I used to spend XX amount a month on CDs but then I realised if I downloaded I could afford XX instead" etc.  Downloading illegally is so normalised now that it is part of their financial planning.

Sporky

Ah - I did recall that the money from Spotify wasn't great, but hadn't realised it was that bad.

I tend to use Bandcamp and Youtube to audition stuff, and if I like it I buy it.

ChrisMusic

An interesting perspective from Marc Guillermont, in an article in this discussion >here<

"Talking about work and being a musician today, I would have a lot to say. But what I am sure, for me that is, working in film music is the last chance to get a better and decent life. I say that because if I count on guitar player status, I better give up...!! "

digitalscream

Drew_fx said:

I'm sure from that you could probably extrapolate our sales figures across the past 4 years or so. But suffice to say, iTunes and direct sales make up the bulk of our income (such as it is!) and Spotify is right at the bottom. You get something like 0.00458pence per-play, so unless you're Toyah Wilcox or Judas Priest or some bullshit like that, you aint making any money!

Perhaps I'm reading it wrong, but in that statement Spotify accounts for $23.95, second only to iTunes at $25.83, out of a total of $68.63...?

Am I missing something?

Axe_meister

My wishful thinking is that more bands will have to go out and actually play to make money therefore increasing the number of live music venues.

Reading the Ronnie Wood Biography at the moment and artists were paid bugger all by the record companies for records sales, so they had to make money with touring. There were alot more venues around in those days for startups.

Drew_TNBD

digitalscream said:

Drew_fx said:

I'm sure from that you could probably extrapolate our sales figures across the past 4 years or so. But suffice to say, iTunes and direct sales make up the bulk of our income (such as it is!) and Spotify is right at the bottom. You get something like 0.00458pence per-play, so unless you're Toyah Wilcox or Judas Priest or some bullshit like that, you aint making any money!

Perhaps I'm reading it wrong, but in that statement Spotify accounts for $23.95, second only to iTunes at $25.83, out of a total of $68.63...?

Am I missing something?

Aye. About 4 years of records!

Trust me, Spotify is WAY down the list. iTunes has made us over $500 over the years (still a shit amount) and Spotify has made us about $40

Drew_TNBD

Axe_meister said:

My wishful thinking is that more bands will have to go out and actually play to make money therefore increasing the number of live music venues.

Reading the Ronnie Wood Biography at the moment and artists were paid bugger all by the record companies for records sales, so they had to make money with touring. There were alot more venues around in those days for startups.

Venues are all in the toilet right now, particularly in this country. They're also jealously gaurded by viscious money grabbing promoters who don't give a fuck about the music itself, and just want to fill the bar up with alcoholics so that they get their cut from the landlord.

Zodiac51

Just going back to the original post...

The myth that "people are getting their music for free" has been perpetuated for a while now, same for "pirating has killed the creative industry" - both of those statements are utter bollocks.

The public has never paid as much for their music (and misc creative content) as they are doing now, they just think they are getting it for free.

Lets just look of the cost for your "free" music (YMMV):

• Iphone - £550
• Ipad - £600
• Monthly Data plan - £50
• home broadband - £20

Lets say you have one of the i*** on contract with your monthly data plan, so you get it for "just" £300 that works out at £1740 per year for your "free" music. In the olden days when cds were £12 a pop that works out at 145 cds worth of "free" music - Who bought 145 cds a year in their youth? I certainly didn't!

All that has changed is who they are paying for their "free" music, Apple and the data providers have "done a Tescos" on the creative industries and cut down to nothing what they are willing to pay for the creative content, and like the farmers before them the creative industry weren't ready for it and are now reeling from the fall out. The real beauty of it though is, that they are fucking over both the artist and the consumer AND making them feel responsible for it.

It's like saying you can fly to Tenerife for £1.99 with Ryanair.

Oh well, as the instructions say "Light blue touch paper and stand well clear".....

digitalscream

Zodiac51 said:

Lets say you have one of the i*** on contract with your monthly data plan, so you get it for "just" £300 that works out at £1740 per year for your "free" music. In the olden days when cds were £12 a pop that works out at 145 cds worth of "free" music - Who bought 145 cds a year in their youth? I certainly didn't!

That would be true, if the assumption that those devices and services are purchased solely to play music were true. However, it isn't - in fact, being able to listen to music through them is nothing more than incidental to their main purpose...

Drew_TNBD

Zodiac51;47772" said:

Just going back to the original post...

The myth that "people are getting their music for free" has been perpetuated for a while now, same for "pirating has killed the creative industry" - both of those statements are utter bollocks.

The public has never paid as much for their music (and misc creative content) as they are doing now, they just think they are getting it for free.

Lets just look of the cost for your "free" music (YMMV):Iphone - £550Ipad - £600Monthly Data plan - £50home broadband - £20Lets say you have one of the i*** on contract with your monthly data plan, so you get it for "just" £300 that works out at £1740 per year for your "free" music. In the olden days when cds were £12 a pop that works out at 145 cds worth of "free" music - Who bought 145 cds a year in their youth? I certainly didn't!

All that has changed is who they are paying for their "free" music, Apple and the data providers have "done a Tescos" on the creative industries and cut down to nothing what they are willing to pay for the creative content, and like the farmers before them the creative industry weren't ready for it and are now reeling from the fall out. The real beauty of it though is, that they are fucking over both the artist and the consumer AND making them feel responsible for it.

It's like saying you can fly to Tenerife for £1.99 with Ryanair.

Oh well, as the instructions say "Light blue touch paper and stand well clear".....

You do realise that this is more about creative people not being able to make money from their intellectual property right? The fact that someone has spent £500 on an iPad has fuck all to do with that.

It's like... we're having a conversation about the colour of grass, and you barge in waving your arms talking about quantum mechanics. That's how nonsensical your post is in the current context, and it doesn't justify how little the likes of Spotify pass on to their artists.

If someone steals our album instead of paying a poxy fiver for it on Bandcamp, the medium they decide to play it on really has no meaning for me. They stole our music that we spent over two years of our lives making; not to mentioning having some of the best production values from a non-label solely DIY band.

I believe in paying someone if they create something that I enjoy.

We just saw fucking dinner ladies - DINNER LADIES - get the legal right to earn the same as bin men. Why don't musicians have a similar lobbyist group? Because no-one gives a fuck. That's why. Plenty more where those chumps came from, keep feeding our children the rockstar dream...

Drew_TNBD

Fretwired said:

@Drew_fx I bought a couple of your albums on iTunes ... I trust you got paid .. :-)

Cheers guv! In all likelyhood we got a good chunk of it, and spent it on petrol driving to Leeds to play to an empty room