Do I Boogie or not

BilliBob

Hey guys,
its that time, need to upgrade my amp.  Its going to be a difficult one.  I totally love my amp and its versatility but I am feeling the need for some more serious tone.
Currently using Line 6 Flextone II XL(2x12 100watt) with floorboard.  For anyone who hasnt actually heard one of these in the flesh, dont be fooled, it is an awesome amp.  It is not the crappy spider range, this is second to the top of the range, the only better offer was the Vetta II.(Which I may go for £750.00 + 225 for the floorboard).
I have always had a hankering for a Mesa Boogie.  Bud guitarist had an F50 a while back and it was stunning, loud maybe too loud without attenuator, but the tone was amazing.
I like my cleans you see, only get it totally driven for a particular cover etc.
I dont have MarkV money, but I can go for a LoneStar Special 2x12 or Electradyne 2x12.
I have been told of Egnater which look cool but cant find anywhere to actually try one.
Please give me some advice and options, any help would be very much appreciated.  Whichever I go for, I am going to have to live and gig with.
Do I just give in to my long standing lust for a Boogie?
Please help.

richardhomer

I'm a fan of Mesa amps - I've owned a 'fully loaded' hardwood cab/wicker grille MkIII, a Subway Rocket Reverb and currently a Lonestar Special.

There are a couple of inescapable facts about them; they are obscenely expensive in this country - so you really should buy used - and they can be hard to dial in. Dialled in badly, they are capable of sounding pretty poor...

Reliability is generally very good - but as ever, whether one is 'right' for you, depends on what kind of tones you want.

There is a wide choice of brands out there and the second hand amp market seems particularly 'soft' at the moment.

I certainly wouldn't rush into a Mesa 'because it's a Mesa'.

Catthan

I'd recommend trying a Lonestar classic as well as the special.

1x12 Lonestar is heavy, 2x12 would be impractical imho unless you got roadies.. 

Keep an eye for older Boogies too. MkIIIs and sometimes IIBs pop up from time to time (get a loaded one: GEQ, Simulclass, Reverb) or older rectifiers, the tremoverb I hear is exceptional

I think there are some older Boogies that were basically single channel clean platforms, the Blue Anger iirc?

Jalapeno

Yes you need one.

I have a Nomad45 (busted), Mini Rectifier, and Subway Rocket combo.

Mini Rec is superb, really flexible and deafening for 25 watts.

fretmeister

I have a Dual Rec multi-watt and it is extremely versatile. It is not just a metal amp by any means.

I had an old 2 channel one in about 1995 and stupidly sold it. It's taken me over a decade and endless other amps to realise all I wanted was another Dual Rec.

The Multi-Watt (sometimes called the Dual Rec Reborn) is much better than the first 3 channel version.

They can come up used under £1000

ICBM

There are huge differences between many of the models, and between "Boogie" and Mesa" in particular. There are too many to either know whether you'll like any of them or dislike all of them without more information.

Even within the ranges there are some huge difference - eg the Blue Angel and the Maverick are both part of the 'Dual Rectifier' series, but sound nothing like a Dual Rectifer *model* at all. Not even similar.

Overall they probably do a wider range of valve amps than any other company, maybe even Fender and Peavey… although it is true that they *do* have a certain 'family voice' in that they are all relatively dark, that's about as far as it goes.

BigBearKris

I know that You're discussing Mesa here but if You're into Your Flextone how about upgrading to Line6 DT50 212? Quality tones and plenty of volume. It will get you great cleans and all kinds of driven sound (IIRC hi gain is modelled on Mesa). They sell those out for absolutely silly money at Anderton's and thomann.

RocknRollDave

Yes, on a Saturday night.

not_the_dj

RocknRollDave said:

Yes, on a Saturday night.

He he, lol.

SquireJapan

I can only really talk about the Mark V (I now have the combo, having just downsized from the head and 2x12). I do have a mate who gigs with the combo, so even though I'm not gigging with it, I can throw in some experience (by proxy...).

The Mark V is by far my favorite of the Mesa amps - mainly due to the fact the cleans are amazing. Just for the first channel alone it is stunning. Massive headroom and tonnes of flexibility. The other channels are very good too, but the first channel is *stunning*.

The big issue with the V is that it's takes a while to get used to how it works (pre and post EQ is the big thing really). If you read the manual and watch the Petrucci videos and/or get someone who knows it to set it up, it is amazing. With that complexity though comes the big issue - it is very very easy to make it sound like a total dog...

Lots of people seem to end up ditching them and going back to a more simple layout - I can't blame them. If you're not into fiddling and "fine tuning" knobs, don't bother with the V. I did try the Rectoverb and the Lonestar - both sounded very very good, but I was really after a "tonal tour-du-force" (tm), and that's what I got with the V.

Just my 2 cents ...

imalrightjack

I loved the Egnater Renegade 65w but they don't seem to be available new and had reliability issues (I had one from new which was stunning; Guitar Guitar sold me an ex-demo one that had a history of problems when I pushed for answers - it went back).  I fancied the Rebel Mkii but stock is impossible to get hold of.  My faith in the company has pretty much gone.  I've emailed asking for info on the new amp (Mkii) and had no responses and they haven't even posted clips for it.  Rather shoddy which is a shame as the ones I've used were great.

not_the_dj

imalrightjack said:

I loved the Egnater Renegade 65w but they don't seem to be available new and had reliability issues (I had one from new which was stunning; Guitar Guitar sold me an ex-demo one that had a history of problems when I pushed for answers - it went back).  I fancied the Rebel Mkii but stock is impossible to get hold of.  My faith in the company has pretty much gone.  I've emailed asking for info on the new amp (Mkii) and had no responses and they haven't even posted clips for it.  Rather shoddy which is a shame as the ones I've used were great.

Same experience with Egnater. I loved my Tweaker 40, but when the output transformer blew the after sales support was non exsistant. GuitarGuitar managed to sell me one a replacement transformer they took out of a combo model they had on display as even they chouldn't get the official spare.  No response at all from the support email address they have on their website.

Bucket

I've got the new 25-watt Mark V.

Having had it for about three months, overall it's brilliant. Very versatile, portable and absolutely beautifully made. Lots of sounds on offer too. I like to "set and forget" rather than tweak, so perhaps that element of Mesa ownership doesn't suit me because they're so in-depth and tweakable. As someone said up the page, they're difficult to dial in. I'm still not 100% there with the dirty channel I don't think - it sounds really good for a medium to high-gain modern rock sound, but I can't seem to get it to do modern metal really convincingly (luckily I'm increasingly moving away from that sound anyway).

There's certainly an art to dialling in the Mark series with the graphic EQ, I assume the amps without that are easier. There are loads of good sounds in it though, of course. And I've never come across a Mesa with a bad clean channel, they're always superb.

I am thinking about also buying something like a Deluxe Reverb for gigging in due course though, just because the little Mark V and my 1x12 are very expensive and just a teensy bit too easy to walk off with. Inb4 ICBM tells me to get a back-breaking Tremoverb... if a ne'er-do-well manages to get that out of the venue without collapsing or being spotted, he can fucking have it

I would advise you to try as many Mesas as you can, to make sure you like that sound and to ensure you find the right one.

prh777

Swapped the mkv combo with @SquireJapan here - great trade btw thanks.  I'd echo his comments (looking at the head version on my desk to the right).  Cleans are epic.  Lots of time with the tele and strat doing whatever people do.  

I have a Jim Root Terror as well and the MkIV mode of the mesa kills it for sensitivity and 'dry' gain a la modern metal (note I use some high output pickups and a pro tone pedals overdrive to push it to the point of being staccato in its delivery) but the Jim Root terror does it for saturation.  I'm trying to find the settings that cover the saturated tone with the mesa (MkI mode with the presence dimed is currently the best outcome) but still searching.  

Takes pedals well.  Running a Stomp Under Foot - Pumpkin Pi through it for some op amp fuzz tones and it's working very well.

I tend not to rehearse too much other than rock metal so can't comment on the lower gain AC/DC tones at volume but they sound good through the home kit (Torpedo Reload into Saffire pro 26).

Next up a Mini Rec for rehearsal (often post work) to challenge the jim root terror.....

I would say you need to test them at volume.  The mkv sounded good at lower levels but you could interact more when a bit cranked.

sweepy

I have gone back to Boogies after a break, having owned a Mk4 ( stupidly complex and unreliable ) Caliber 50+ ( basically a Studio 22 on steroids ) and now a Nomad 55 . Definitely worth looking at a Nomad as it is one of the " least favoured" Boogies, but sounds great imho and can be picked up for silly money 

Deijavoo

I've had 3 Mesa amps, two Dual Recs and a Mark V. Love the sound of the Dual Rec but the miniscule footswitch lag drove me nuts. The original 3 channel was instant but the Multi Watt sounded better to my ears. 

I pretty much hated the Mark V for noise and again footswitch lag issues. The good people at Westside assured me that it was normal, but my Dual Recs were silent, so was my SLO Clone and as is my current Hagen. Maybe I was being fussy but there was some shit hot tones in that amp and I couldn't see past the hiss.

I say all this and I love Mesa, I'd love to get a Tremoverb one day on ICBM and Nick McCabe's strong recomendations!

bigdawg

Once you Boogie you don't look back...  As Ive found out to the detriment of my wallet.

Ive had the Express 5:50 and now have the 5:25+, looked at the F5, Mark V, Rectifiers and Roadkings (the absolute only amp you will ever need - if you can cope with the volume...) but for mainly playing at home and the odd jam / gig / open mike the express fits the bill with the variable output for me, the others were just too loud for what I do...

But one day I will own that roadking....!

rich75

BilliBob said:

I have been told of Egnater which look cool but cant find anywhere to actually try one.

I've had an Egnater Rebel 30 MkII for about 3 months now and, having done about 10 gigs with it during that time, I'm really happy with it. Well worth a try if you can find one. I got mine from Peach Guitars in Colchester, but they don't seem to have much Egnater stock at the moment according to their website.

Rockhopper

I had a Mesa Triaxis for 15 years, first with a 50/50 then a 2:90 (about 10 years) also owned a mesa DC5 for a few years. Due to size of cabs etc for the Triaxis I downsized to a Mk5 combo and then bought an Express5:25+ for backup/smaller gigs.

I spent almost 10 months last year playing only the 5:25+, the Mk5 being the backup. I just really get on with it well.

Best advice try as many as you can but I think I am a Mesa addict.

Nerine

I have had 4 Boogies.

1 Single Rectifier
2 Dual Rectifiers
1 Mark V

I don't have any of them any more.

Don't really regret it either.

I think they're great band amps as in they sit in a mix nicely, great for heavier tones etc. but for me generally being more of a shreddy/bluesy/hard rock kinda guy, I'm obviously more drawn towards amps of a Marshall flavour.

And I think that no matter how they sell it, Boogies will never sound like Marshalls and have the same feel.

All YMMV etc.

I'd also argue that a JCM 800 reissue with 2 pedals (Empress Para EQ w/boost) and a normal TS style pedal goosing the front is a far more versatile and even heavier sounding proposition than a Dual Rec.

Just my thoughts. I do really like Boogies, and I think everyone should experience a Dual Rec at some stage.
I think I might have just grown out of them a bit.

In a pinch though, I would happily take a Dual Rec over most things though, as they are a truly great amp

ICBM

Nerine said:

I do really like Boogies, and I think everyone should experience a Dual Rec at some stage. 

I think I might have just grown out of them a bit. 

In a pinch though, I would happily take a Dual Rec over most things though, as they are a truly great amp  

I think it's a very misunderstood amp and *far* more versatile than its reputation suggests. Most people probably haven't ever found out what it can do because they think it's just a nu-metal buzz/boom box. Not at all.

Nerine said:

And I think that no matter how they sell it, Boogies will never sound like Marshalls and have the same feel.

I really wish you could have heard me A/B'ing my Trem-o-verb against a Marshall 2203 through the same speakers…

Obviously both amps don't sound the same overall,and each can do things the other can't, but it was also possible to set them so they sounded so identical that me and the friend who were trying them forgot which amp was on - thought it was the Marshall and went to adjust it, found the knobs didn't do anything!

It's a little game I like to play with a lot of amps I'm working on… see if I can duplicate it with the Trem-o-verb. Most of the time, I can get extremely close, even with amps you would think were totally different.

It doesn't sound the same as a Dual Rectifier though, even with the reverb and tremolo turned off. There's something in the extra bit of circuitry there which makes it sound looser and more open, less direct and in-your-face than the Rectifier.