Speakers for a Plexi 50w

ThePrettyDamned

Gassage;492566" said:

Lynden



Try the EV12L's



Amazing with a plexi style amp but they weight as much as Cardiff!

Oh come on, don't be unfair.

Cardiff isn't THAT heavy...

ESBlonde

If you're going to run the plexi into unbridled overdrive it will cook the greenbacks, maybe not the first time you do it or even the second but it is just a matter of time.

Look at Lean Business they sell Montage cabs which are very nice and can supply your celestions of choice or maybe the Tayden High Brit at 50w a piece?

They even do a discounted pair of speakers and fit them in the cab.

Just another option to explore.

Moe_Zambeek

Some new Fanes were to be announced at NAMM, might be interesting. Their alnico 12s always struck me as speakers crying out to be abused by a roaring Marshall.

I had a 45/50 some years ago and tried both standard g12ms and the heritage versions. I preferred the latter but the Cornell cab was not a good sounding cab with any speakers - in terms of wanting rock sounds. No thunk, very compressed with no bite to the attack. More suited to fender sounds I think.

thisisguitar

Thanks @ESBlonde. I've ordered a custom cab from Zilla, just put it into 'Amps' under NCD :-)

Saw the Lean Business site the other day, may use them in the future actually.

thisisguitar

@Moe_Zambeek - Someone else warned me off the Cornell cab before thankfully. Why anyone building plexi-style amps would build an open back cab is beyond me.

ICBM

thisisguitar said:

@Moe_Zambeek - Someone else warned me off the Cornell cab before thankfully. Why anyone building plexi-style amps would build an open back cab is beyond me.

Bluesbreaker combos sound great…

thisisguitar

^ That's a very valid point. Doh! 

Fusionista

ICBM said:

thisisguitar said:

@Moe_Zambeek - Someone else warned me off the Cornell cab before thankfully. Why anyone building plexi-style amps would build an open back cab is beyond me.

Bluesbreaker combos sound great…

Open-backed fine in smaller venues in particular. Although interesting, last week I did feel I reached the limit of mine, which itself replaced a Cornford Hurricane. 4x12 generally overkill for me these days (especially with my oppo using a Mesa 1x12 combo), maybe try my home-made 'Paul Weller' 2x12 closed back next time.

Moe_Zambeek

The Cornell cab is pine, which I think was the main problem, rather than the open back. Also I seem to recall the baffle arrangement was odd. Might have been front mounted speakers, I can't remember.

Nice and light though. Just didn't sound great.

Marshall 2045 would be an ideal pairing.

ecc83

It has just stuck me that Son (when here!) is running an HT-20 into a single Greenback and this would appear to break the 50% rule?

Not so, the HT-20 is one of the few valve amps that only delivers its rated power. Maybe, with the wind in the right direction and mains volts at 250 it could struggle 30watts. In any case he does not have much opportunity to belt it here at home.

The combo is of course sold with IC's "pinup" Rocket 50 so that at ;east is safe!

Do not however take the same idea for the rest of the HT range! The 5 will give 10W and the HT-60 well over 80 and still pretty clean at that.

Dave.

Fusionista

Moe_Zambeek said:

The Cornell cab is pine, which I think was the main problem, rather than the open back. Also I seem to recall the baffle arrangement was odd. Might have been front mounted speakers, I can't remember.

Nice and light though. Just didn't sound great.

Marshall 2045 would be an ideal pairing.

The pine thing might explain the tonality of one of my PP18's...

O/w my 2 XG12M is a Zilla Standard which is I believe similar to the 2045 and it's my go to with the 'early-Marshall' Orion, but runs out of bottom at the limit.

Thinking of replacing the Hot100's in my Small Vintage, what does anyone think are the considerations ?

not_the_dj

ecc83 said:

It has just stuck me that Son (when here!) is running an HT-20 into a single Greenback and this would appear to break the 50% rule?

Not so, the HT-20 is one of the few valve amps that only delivers its rated power. Maybe, with the wind in the right direction and mains volts at 250 it could struggle 30watts. In any case he does not have much opportunity to belt it here at home.

The combo is of course sold with IC's "pinup" Rocket 50 so that at ;east is safe!

Do not however take the same idea for the rest of the HT range! The 5 will give 10W and the HT-60 well over 80 and still pretty clean at that.

Dave.

@ecc83 what about he HT-50 head? That's what I'm using.

ecc83

"@ecc83 what about he HT-50 head? That's what I'm using. "

With two Greenbacks? Probably safe...ish! The 50 head is actually the HT-40 "engine" the number is changed to differentiate it from the club 40. Cheat? Not really. I shall explain.

You can define the power output of an amp as X volts into Y Ohms at clipping on a scope then do the sums. "Clipping" is in the eye of the beholder! Not an exact measure.

Then, all Blackstar speccs' are done at an actual 230volts mains input. For the more usual 240V input you get 43W. If mains was at max allowed of 253 40W becomes 48W!

The above is not to condone a cheat, it simply shows that power amp measurement is not straightforward. A better method of specifying PO would be X volts into Y Ohms at Z distortion. I recall checking a Stage 100 and it easily put out 120watts long before it got to 10% Total Harmonic Distortion.

So, bottom line. It is perfectly fair to call a 40 watter a 50 watter because it will do it by any reasonable measure! (not the cathode biased 20 as I said)

Don't sweat the numbers. Unless peeps are making outrageous claims (50W from 2 EL84s!) tis just practical marketing.

Dave.

ICBM

The "50% rule" is variable… some manufacturers are much less conservative than others. For example old Goodmans need about a 200% rule! Fanes and Jensens probably 75-100% for safety, Eminences maybe 50%. (Just going by experience of blown speakers.) Celestions are mostly OK at the rated power, with no margin.

Even then it varies from model to model. Even though I don't think the G12M-25 is one of Celestion's tougher speakers relative to its rating, it will still take a 25W amp. A 20-watter is going to be about ideal. The problem with two in a Plexi 50 is that those amps can put out considerably more than 50W, even clean.

By comparison a G12H-30 will take a bit more than 30W, I think - Dr.Z thinks so too, he puts one in the 38W Maz Sr. amp... although I have seen one of those with a blown speaker, and I don't actually think it's a good choice really - it's not a speaker which sounds its best when being thrashed either.

Some of the more modern Celestions don't seem quite as robust as their rating - the G12T-100 particularly and possibly the G12K-100, both of which I've come across blown ones of in 100W combos.

Even with all that it depends on the cabinet, the type of power amp, the voicing and probably even other things, when the speaker is very close to its limit. Its not a totally exact science.