How much does a re-fret affect vintage value?

IvisonGuitars

What are you opinions on this?

Let's say it's a great re-fret, expertly done.

I say it has zero effect on the vintage value, if it makes it a better playing guitar then surely that's for the better?

Loobs

I don't think it should negatively affect value.

richardhomer

If it was done 'appropriately' (fingerboard radius unmodified, appropriate fret wire, etc) - it shouldn't make any difference.

A friend of mine who used to be one of the UK's top repairers (now retired) used to save the higher frets from vintage guitars he refretted on the basis that they showed little wear and were long enough to use in lower slots - so he could offer 'vintage' refrets with genuine wire.

Bidley

I think it's one of those things, where, it shouldn't affect the guitar's value, but chances are it probably would.

Voxman

For purists a refret will impact on value regardless of how well its done simply because the guitar is no longer completely original. How much depends on the guitar's rarity. With a 1959 LP these are so rare any impact will be negligible or nil. But it will likely lower the price a little of eg a 63 strat. By how much is debateable.

JookyChap

It no doubt does affect the value for collectors, but when you looked at how Stradivarius violins have been maintained over the years and don't lose any value it is crazy daft. 

ChrisMusic

I would suggest having a conversation with Richard Henry, and maybe one or two of the respected vintage dealers stateside.

They know the foibles of the market better than anyone, and will understand how the guitar you're considering, in concert with its condition, will likely be affected, and how that may narrow your market should you choose to sell.  That's the real point at which value is determined.

Personally I would just enjoy making it the best it can be, and love the experience of owning and playing a great guitar.  But that's just me.  Good luck, whatever you decide.  

ICBM

If a professional, top-quality refret with the correct wire that is basically indistinguishable from original apart from not being worn lowers the value, then there is something deeply wrong with the world. (Although that is a possibility, since a lot is.)

It's highly unlikely that any guitar with fret wear serious enough to need a refret would be in the kind of condition where the loss of strict originality makes any difference anyway. Unless the guitar is in untouched factory original condition then any (appropriate, correct) parts replacement due to the original being worn out or having failed is a total non-issue, to me.

DamianP

There`s monetary value, then there`s functional value.  

I`ve seen plenty of old guitars with worn out frets that were worth quite a lot of money but were pretty much worthless as musical instruments.

Teetonetal

ICBM said:

If a professional, top-quality refret with the correct wire that is basically indistinguishable from original apart from not being worn lowers the value, then there is something deeply wrong with the world. (Although that is a possibility, since a lot is.)

It's highly unlikely that any guitar with fret wear serious enough to need a refret would be in the kind of condition where the loss of strict originality makes any difference anyway. Unless the guitar is in untouched factory original condition then any (appropriate, correct) parts replacement due to the original being worn out or having failed is a total non-issue, to me.

THIS

digitalscream

A lot of people don't see it this way because they rarely own guitars long enough for it to become apparent, but to my mind frets are a consumable no different to strings (except they're a bit more firmly attached).

welshboyo

its like buying a vintage car with "original oil from factory"...

you would walk away..

ICBM

welshboyo said:

its like buying a vintage car with "original oil from factory"...

Not quite, but original brake discs are probably a fair analogy. An item that is considered part of the car but is expected to wear out and be replaced after some time, and which would eventually make the car more or less unusable if you didn't replace them.

Bogwhoppit

JookyChap said:

 when you looked at how Stradivarius violins have been maintained over the years and don't lose any value it is crazy daft. 

Refrets are hard to carry out on Strads 

welshboyo

ICBM said:

welshboyo said:

its like buying a vintage car with "original oil from factory"...

Not quite, but original brake discs are probably a fair analogy. An item that is considered part of the car but is expected to wear out and be replaced after some time, and which would eventually make the car more or less unusable if you didn't replace them.

yeah, suppose the oil was a bit OTT, thats like strings I suppose, discs are a good analogy though...I've got an old Gretsch here thats still on original frets, I wouldn't hesitate to re-fret it if and when it needs it...to me it shows an instrument that's been cared for and also shows an instrument that can be "played"..and I know this Gretsch has been played and loved since it was bought brand new......

ICBM

Bogwhoppit said:

JookyChap said:

 when you looked at how Stradivarius violins have been maintained over the years and don't lose any value it is crazy daft. 

Refrets are hard to carry out on Strads 

But every one that's still played today has had a new fingerboard .

And a neck reset and new bridge - because when they were made, the playing style was different and they had a lower neck angle with a flatter fingerboard. And much lower string tension! It's actually quite surprising and a tribute to the original design that they withstand modern strings so well.

Not only that, most have had new tailpieces, and as far as I know all will have had new tuning pegs. All or almost all will have had body repairs up to and including the top removed and put back, and finish touch-ups.

Do all that to a '59 Les Paul, and what would it be worth?

And yet... the Peter Green one isn't that far off that level of damage and repair, and is still one of the most valuable of all because of the two (arguably three now) players associated with it, so perhaps guitars will go the same way eventually and be valued for their history and tone rather than their collectability. I hope so...

Bogwhoppit

ICBM said:

Bogwhoppit said:

JookyChap said:

 when you looked at how Stradivarius violins have been maintained over the years and don't lose any value it is crazy daft. 

Refrets are hard to carry out on Strads 

But every one that's still played today has had a new fingerboard .

And a neck reset and new bridge ... new tailpieces ... new tuning pegs. All or almost all will have had body repairs up to and including the top removed and put back, and finish touch-ups.

Bimey, much like 'Triggers' broom !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUl6PooveJE

jpfamps

ICBM said:

If a professional, top-quality refret with the correct wire that is basically indistinguishable from original apart from not being worn lowers the value, then there is something deeply wrong with the world. (Although that is a possibility, since a lot is.)

It's highly unlikely that any guitar with fret wear serious enough to need a refret would be in the kind of condition where the loss of strict originality makes any difference anyway. Unless the guitar is in untouched factory original condition then any (appropriate, correct) parts replacement due to the original being worn out or having failed is a total non-issue, to me.

I would concur with this view.

If the guitar is mint, it wouldn't need a refret.

If the guitar has been played and needs a refret, unless the job is done badly, you won't be devaluing the guitar.

Blacksheep

I think a pro refret would matter only to most ardent cork sniffer.

The big question is this: Is your wife/girlfriend more likely to OK a big purchase if she thinks it is an investment?

 

 

 

Nunogilberto

I'd liken it to a spare tyre on a classic car - you need a decent spare if you're going to drive it around - a 60s original jobbie won't cut it if you plan on using it. Same with frets - as long as it's a tidy job, it shouldn't matter...

FelineGuitars

I think it's the tyre kicking bargain seeking nature of collectors to say " oh it's ben serviced or repaired ...so let's reduce the price I'll pay by 50%" that has permeated into our culture.

If you buy a car and it has full service history, everybody knows it to be a good thing in principle.

But replace the tuners or refret a fantastic 50 year old guitar that has been such a great guitar that  it's actually ben played enough to need  such work and we're all like - wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

It's a sad irony that we live in an age wherenew guitars are only ok if they look incredibly distressed but old, secondhand guitars need to  be in as-new condition.....