Help me shred!

Teetonetal

mike_l said:

Teetonetal said:

sounds like a forum challenge to me:

Get a recording without the solo, then we can all shred over the top re-post and you steal the bits you like...

Otherwise VH solo is easy. Bend up into Dive Bomb on a pinched harmonic - blues lick, tap trill (with whammy depressions if you can), dive bomb, blues lick into tap sequence, dive bomb to finish. Job done.

You forgot a high-gain amp/pedal and a flanger, but I'll let you off........

sorry  "> assumed that was a given!

mike_l

Teetonetal said:

mike_l said:

You forgot a high-gain amp/pedal and a flanger, but I'll let you off........

sorry  "> assumed that was a given!

That's ok, you let off.

A bit of delay and wah always helps with sounding a bit faster too.

digitalscream

The turning point for me was Satriani's Echo (from Surfing With The Alien) - even though it's in 5/4, it's a very easy introduction to legato stuff.

The simplest way to pull off a tasteless, widdly-widdly solo for me is to tie fast pentatonic position 1 blues licks into a bit of legato, and then use tapping with the middle finger of my picking hand as an extra left-hand finger in the legato stuff. It's amazing how it sounds really impressive, but is actually really bloody easy because by that point you've already got all the muscle memory trained-in.

monquixote

digitalscream said:

The turning point for me was Satriani's Echo (from Surfing With The Alien) - even though it's in 5/4, it's a very easy introduction to legato stuff.

The simplest way to pull off a tasteless, widdly-widdly solo for me is to tie fast pentatonic position 1 blues licks into a bit of legato, and then use tapping with the middle finger of my picking hand as an extra left-hand finger in the legato stuff. It's amazing how it sounds really impressive, but is actually really bloody easy because by that point you've already got all the muscle memory trained-in.

Any good examples. 

I'll try to get a soloable over recording for y'all.

digitalscream

monquixote said:

Any good examples. 

I'll try to get a soloable over recording for y'all.

A good fast legato lick to follow almost any bluesy thing is at 1:15 here:

Then there's the whole solo of The Extremist (starting at 1:19):

The only other one I can immediately think of is a little bit of shameless self-promotion. The lick at 2:13 in Sunset of Red is followed by a fast run of mostly legato, partially picked notes with a tap at the very top of it:

https://closedcircuituk.bandcamp.com/track/sunset-of-red

Do any of those help?

Sambostar

I still don't think that I can shred, even though I can pick cleanly and fast and probably play 'Shreddy'.  The reason being that I still hear blues in my head as a way to resolve things or solo, I can't hear or imagine repetitive patterns in advance, so it kind of stops me playing them, or at least playing them fluidly as I always try to mix up the semi quavers or semi tone bends or slides in subconciously. I also hate the fluid sound of sweeps or arpegios.

I think a lot of it is in your head, even the hard rock guitarists I like, Lynch and Demartini and even EVH I wouldn't consider shredders and I love Chris Holme's heavy handedness.

I wouldn't even consider Malmsteen a proper shredder as he does get a load of tone in there with his singles coils.

True shred to me is akin to pure Jazz or an SDS drill and I don't really like it t be honest.

Define Shred?

monquixote

Sambostar said:

Define Shred?

I'd really rather not disappear down that rabbit hole. 

I'd like to play a twiddy fast solo. call it what you will.

Sambostar

This isn't proper shred is it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgzjtAo60ug

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQSobhEO_FU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuk8rWhHGs4

Sambostar

Oh I got carried away again.  OK, bad taste shredding solo.  First off, rip off, blatantly, the tapping fill from VH's 'Hot for Teacher' as an intro to your out of context shreddy solo.  It's very easy.  Do a load of fly picking and unison bends and then some considered whammy bends and end it by a long legato sequence on the right note to another whammy dive or harmonic dive.  What about something like that?

Unless they want you to play an energised melody, in which case you are stuffed if you can't provide any energy by shredding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYFINYTu1Mk

2:50, take a leaf out of Chris Holmes book for how to play energised melodies and solos, all his legato stuff is basically the same and learn to play like that.  The chord progression and pace is similar.  Check out some more 80's era wasp songs, like Love Machine and I wanna Be Somebody for how to make it sound shreddy, when you are essentially a blues player.

Sambostar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOhnEQAsUtg

Sambostar

The progression is Am F G Am.  Fairly standard rock progression there man and encompasses everything from Ratt's 'Back for More' to GNR's Nightrain. Hard rock was built on those chords.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox5Bh7NFD-M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuyvT8nFMLY

Bellycaster

Are the Band against the original solo in the song? I wouldn't class the original solo as "Shred" but it is quite flash and quirky and impressive. It's not as difficult as it sounds either and can be learned easily by breaking it down into segments.

I, like you, MQ, cannot shred, in the proper sense.

Have a look at the original in the sense as to which "position" each segment of the solo is played, you can then follow a pattern even if you don't learn it note for note(and you'll have to think F# instead of G, like you said), but it can still give you the "map".

the original is 95% Minor Pentatonic anyway.

Lots of good suggestions above anyway, use of the Whammy and use of simple Hammer-ons, find out where the easiest repetative pull offs are etc. Legato on a single string etc.

Sambostar

Bellycaster said:

Are the Band against the original solo in the song? I wouldn't class the original solo as "Shred" but it is quite flash and quirky and impressive. It's not as difficult as it sounds either and can be learned easily by breaking it down into segments.

Yeah it's like a rendition from George Lynch and Hank Marvin's bastard child.  Should be easy to improve on.

monquixote

Bellycaster said:

Are the Band against the original solo in the song? I wouldn't class the original solo as "Shred" but it is quite flash and quirky and impressive. It's not as difficult as it sounds either and can be learned easily by breaking it down into segments.

I, like you, MQ, cannot shred, in the proper sense.

Have a look at the original in the sense as to which "position" each segment of the solo is played, you can then follow a pattern even if you don't learn it note for note(and you'll have to think F# instead of G, like you said), but it can still give you the "map".

the original is 95% Minor Pentatonic anyway.

Lots of good suggestions above anyway, use of the Whammy and use of simple Hammer-ons, find out where the easiest repetative pull offs are etc. Legato on a single string etc.

We are playing an arrangement based around the live clip I posted rather than the original which has a slightly rubbish shreddy solo. The band asked if I could do something "tasteless 80's shreddy, a bit like Van Halen" 

I could say I'd rather do something like the original record and they would be cool with it, but I don't think it's an especially good solo and I figured in the context of my limited solo repertoire it would be a good idea to see what I could do.

Bellycaster

@monquixote

Taste is a funny thing, I love that original solo. That live version just seems a bit more up tempo and "Rocked up" but essentially, it's the same song.

I don't envy you to be honest, I can play the original solo and can improvise over certain stuff , but I would be uncomfortable improving a solo over that particular song at that tempo, I'd have to learn something rigid and stick to it, it's just my thing, I've always learned stuff "verbatim", so to speak or I like compose something in advance.

I think your band should be more mindful of what you are comfortable with playing though. If you ain't comfortable with having to do "Van Halen" style, then they should respect whatever you come up with on the night, which I'm sure you will do well.

You obviously do your job very well within the band and I know you're a good Guitarist because I've heard your stuff, but band members all know each others limits and what style of player each person is. If I asked our Bassist to come up with a Bassline like Flea would play, I know he'd say "Get Fucking Real" or something similar.

There's probably a lot of my own insecurities coming out here and you might relish the challenge, but that is just my 2p and no disrespect meant to you or your band.

:-)

monquixote

Bellycaster said:

@monquixote

Taste is a funny thing, I love that original solo. That live version just seems a bit more up tempo and "Rocked up" but essentially, it's the same song.

I don't envy you to be honest, I can play the original solo and can improvise over certain stuff , but I would be uncomfortable improving a solo over that particular song at that tempo, I'd have to learn something rigid and stick to it, it's just my thing, I've always learned stuff "verbatim", so to speak or I like compose something in advance.

I think your band should be more mindful of what you are comfortable with playing though. If you ain't comfortable with having to do "Van Halen" style, then they should respect whatever you come up with on the night, which I'm sure you will do well.

You obviously do your job very well within the band and I know you're a good Guitarist because I've heard your stuff, but band members all know each others limits and what style of player each person is. If I asked our Bassist to come up with a Bassline like Flea would play, I know he'd say "Get Fucking Real" or something similar.

There's probably a lot of my own insecurities coming out here and you might relish the challenge, but that is just my 2p and no disrespect meant to you or your band.

@Bellycaster

I didn't get this when I first read it, but having tried to do this track at rehearsal last night I think I know what you mean. 

For some reason playing this track makes me feel really uncomfortable. I tried to work out a "Shred" type solo for it, but to my ears it sounds like a really fake cod shred solo almost like a pisstake of a shreddy solo. I think that's just because it's not the music that I really understand or listen to. 

It also doesn't help that I don't have a distortion on my board at the moment so I'm having to play it with a velvet fuzz which sounds a bit shit.

I'm growing to really hate the song. I suggested we drop the solo section all together which we tried, but it didn't really work so it's back in, but half the length now thankfully. Got to play it at a gig next saturday and still no idea what I'm going to do for it as everything I've tried sounds awful. 

viz

Perhaps try a different tack - turn the fuzz down to barely fuzzy and do wacka-wacka octaves on strings 1 and 3, with a wah wah, keep it funky, sparse, rythmical and grooveh.

monquixote

Yeah I think something like that would be preferable

hubobulous

If you're veering away from shred, try to incorporate some of the vocal melodies somewhere in your solo. Keeps it familiar for the listener, removes the need for you to compose something completely from scratch, and works with any style of playing

viz

Right, keeyoateh, I've done a vid with a suggestion for you. PM'd. I've also broken it down in stages, that's still uploading - I'll send you the link shortly.