Playing Guitar Through Monitor Speakers

dindude

Genuine question, has anyone ever got satisfactory results playing amp tones through studio (I.e. flattish response) monitors, either with software or hardware modelling? I've tried lots of different options and save for JC120 type chorused clean tones, everything just sounds wrong, or more importantly, feels wrong.

I'm not talking so much about recorded sounds, as they can sound ok in a mix, but just for practicing, it has to be real guitar amp, even when using modelling.

Is it just me?

guitarfishbay

Nope not just you. Nothing sounds like a proper cab except a proper cab. You're only ever going to get mic'd cab sounds through monitors, and it isn't the same thing. I can get sounds I like, but a proper guitar cab always sounds and feels better to me. I never practise through monitors, always a cab.

When I record I use headphones for tracking as it helps me really zone in on my muting technique and general clean playing. I think headphones sound worse than monitors on balance, but for tracking hearing as clear as possible is the goal. YMMV

richardhomer

dindude;36671" said:

Genuine question, has anyone ever got satisfactory results playing amp tones through studio (I.e. flattish response) monitors, either with software or hardware modelling? I've tried lots of different options and save for JC120 type chorused clean tones, everything just sounds wrong, or more importantly, feels wrong.

I'm not talking so much about recorded sounds, as they can sound ok in a mix, but just for practicing, it has to be real guitar amp, even when using modelling.

Is it just me?

No - same here.

The 'feel' under the fingers is just not the same - I somehow feel disconnected from the sound coming out of the speakers - it sounds 'phoned in' from a long way away.

The best results I've had have been when using the emulated out from my Blackstar HT1R. The playing dynamics seems better preserved.

ICBM

Same here. I've never got anything like a natural amp sound from any variety of full-range system. And I hate headphones too.

That is, when it's trying to sound like a electric guitar - I actually like DI'ing some types of electric guitar as if they're electro-acoustics. That's a totally different thing and it's not meant to sound like an amp.

ToneControl

Not the same, but close

The mistake most people make is to use monitors with small drivers and low power amps

If you use 8 inch or larger drivers, or use a powered subwoofer,

and use at least 100w or 200w a side for the stereo monitors, the KPA and AF2 sound very good indeed

If, however, you use a pair of monitors with 4 inch drivers, then unsurprisingly it won't sound like what 12 inch guitar cab drivers can achieve

With really good monitors, and a KPA or AF2, I find that only the best amps can give you extra feel and sound in the room

Phil_aka_Pip

I've recorded electric guitar via pedalboard, Plexi, SE100 speaker emulator, while monitoring on Tannoy Reveal speakers. It's not the same trouser-flapping feel you get with a cranked stage rig, but the sound is pretty much "there" and I've got off on it enough to play a decent solo. 

longi

I'm going to disagree with others a little. We rehearse in a converted garage. Our drummer has an electronic drum kit so we can keep the volume down. The garage is connected to someone elses house so we're forced to keep the volume down. So, We run everything through the PA including my amp which is 60 watts, and DI'ing into a Behringer Ultra G-G100 and using the speaker simulation on that with not unreasonable results. I've been keeping the amps volume right down. The results have been quite favourable. Obviously as the others have said using a speaker mic'd is better, but I think the results have been pretty good. Perfectly usable for practising or a gig situation. Iagree with everybody eles about headphones though, they blow! I also have a Blackstar HT5 and have used the speaker emulation on that to rehearse and record with some nice results

Sassafras

I think only big speakers can give you the dynamics of your playing. Anything else just feels and sounds flat and lifeless.

Cirrus

I think with electric guitar the sound of the box that's actually making the sound is vital - not just the tone, which you can get close enough with modellers that you'd be splitting hairs, but in the way the box actually emenates the sound - how it fills the room. For me, that's part of the joy of the instrument. You can get the tone captured really well with a mic, but even with stereo recording techniques it's hard to capture that sense of the sound enveloping you.

So I think if it's a comparison between a guitar amp/cab and a modeller/studio monitors, there will be an obvious difference in the way the sound fills the room even if tonally there's not much in it, just because though both options involve a box with speakers in it, each box is designed for a very different job. If the comparison is between a miked up amp in a different room being monitored through studio monitors, or a modeller through those same studio monitors, then that levels the playing field because you've taken something away from the 'real' amp - it's no longer there with you exciting the room.

That is, I suspect, the reason there are plenty of detractors of modellers in a live situation - axe fx, line 6, whatever... but the Kemper or other modellers in studio situations are much more universally accepted - in each case it's a different comparison being made.

paulmapp8306

I use my AFX with Adam A5X monitors, and a sub in a 2.1 system.  99% of the time I still prefer the AFX into a power amp and my cab and play that way most of the time - even live.

I do play through the monitors and/or headphones when tracking though - as its less the feel and more how it sits in the mix.  

Chalky

My Kemper sounds great through my Genelec 8040s. But better through my Jensen C12!

CeeBee

The new Laney Pulse is worth checking out. Valve pre-amp with cab simulation built in. Sounds good through my monitors, haven't recorded with it yet but feels amp-like to me.

dindude

CeeBee said:

The new Laney Pulse is worth checking out. Valve pre-amp with cab simulation built in. Sounds good through my monitors, haven't recorded with it yet but feels amp-like to me.

How did you get your hands on one?, can't find any shops with these in stock yet.

CeeBee

Got one from the guitar show in Brum the other week, they only had 6.

thecolourbox

FairDeal in brum have one as well

thermionic

I have a Vox Tonelab (one of the first desktop types) connected through a mixer to a pair of Tannoy Reveals. I find the Tonelab extremely lifelike and it's probably my most used noodling about setup. Certainly better than a small modelling amp (Vox DA-5).

Danny1969

thermionic said:

I have a Vox Tonelab (one of the first desktop types) connected through a mixer to a pair of Tannoy Reveals. I find the Tonelab extremely lifelike and it's probably my most used noodling about setup. Certainly better than a small modelling amp (Vox DA-5).

Yeah The early Tonelabs are great.  My  noodling system is a Tonelab into some cheap  home cinema speakers with a sub woofer. Sounds very good and better than any Pod or software solution I've heard so far. 

MalcolmH

I use S-Gear and it seems perfect for my study/music room environment.

I already have a digital piano connected to my computer via an audio interface so when I decided to learn guitar as a retirement project research led me to S-Gear. You get a free 15 day trial so all is good. The community on the forum are all incredibly friendly and helpful.

 I do need bigger monitors though, the Yamaha MSP3's will have to be replaced in due course.

crunchman

At the volume I can get away with practicing at home then my Kemper through studio monitors sounds better than a real amp.

ToneControl

crunchman said:

At the volume I can get away with practicing at home then my Kemper through studio monitors sounds better than a real amp.

Certainly better than almost all the crap amps you see on sale in most guitar shops (why do people buy nice guitars and cheap amps?)

Even at full volume, a KPA or AF2 is better than most of them I have found, only the best beat those sims

crunchman

I've been told by our sound guy that it sounds better through front of house PA speakers than a miked real amp.  I can believe that.  That's what turned me on to the Kemper when I saw a band where the guitarist was using a Kemper.  I'd seen them the previous year when he had a Marshall half stack and the FOH sound was much better with the Kemper.

What I hear on stage isn't as good with the Kemper but overall the convenience just makes it so good.