Two amp set up...i need education!

samzadgan

So, recently the drummer and the other guitarist decided to leave the band due to "creative differences!"

as a result the bassist and i have decided to be a 2 piece with him on the drums and me on guitar. But, being that we play doom metal, i'm going to need some help on the amp side, and i know a lot of bands in the genre use two amp set up...and my case i would use one guitar amp and one bass amp to fill out the sound. I would run the guitar amp with all my pedals, and the bass amp i would run it relatively clean - maybe a little fuzz.

but when i comes to switchers and other devices that facilitate this type of set up i am completely lost and don't really know what to look for, whats good what rubbish etc...so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

randomhandclaps

Sorry Sam I might be missing something but why would playing through a guitar and a bass amp fill out your sound better than two guitar amps?  Some famous bass players used a guitar amp and bass amp setup with the purpose of the guitar amp to add presence.  I could only see the bass adding to overly weighty low end congestion.  It's not adding lower octave content.

 

samzadgan

"adding to overly weighty low end congestion"

that's actually not a bad thing in the kind of music we play

ThePrettyDamned

A bass amp isn't much different in tone from a guitar amp. Look at the fender bassman

They're just very clean, and quite often, don't sound good. If you're playing doomy music, I'd suggest a pair of guitar amps, one at high gain, one at lower with an octave pedal in front giving you a lower octave, like a pog. The high gain could be an orange or a peavey 6505 (my fave). Just keep the gain below 7, it's got quite a lot, and you won't want to lose definition.

For the cleaner amp, it might make sense to use a bigger speaker. A peavey delta blues is a classic 30 with a 15 inch driver, which should help those octave down notes maintain some kind of bassiness and not turn into detuned mids.

The alternative is to run the octave down into a bass amp, which would work great too probably.

If you want to sound massive, get a stereo chorus pedal. This will add a bit of swirl to the sound (don't turn it up, you'll get sea sick!) and act as a way of splitting your signal. This is all assuming you have a budget that can accommodate - I know I wouldn't!

viz

The traditional method is

guitar > effects that you want each amp to enjoy

effects out > amp 1 input

amp 1 send > some sort of pedal or rack that splits, for example a digital delay, stereo chorus, etc

outputs from that pedal > other effects that you want on either channel (not compulsory)

outputs from those pedals > amp 1's and amp 2's return sockets.

 

This arrangement will however cause a groundloop hum because of the (possibly) different potentials in each amp causing residual mains current to flow through the signal chain, so you will probably need to insert a signal isolator (eg an Ebtech hum eliminator) in the signal path of one of the two signals after the splitter. They're 40 quid from ebay.

 

DO NOT USE A GROUND LIFT PLUG TO UNEARTH ONE OF THE AMPS. Your burning body will cause damage to your house and your insurance won't cover it.

 

steamabacus

viz said:

, so you will probably need to insert a signal isolator (eg an Ebtech hum eliminator) in the signal path of one of the two signals after the splitter. They're 40 quid from ebay.

 

Cheaper / (probably) better at Orchid.

samzadgan

thanks guys...

i just came upon this Lehle Dual pedal...about £200...so quite pricey, given i will need to buy either a bass amp head and cab...or after ready @ThePrettyDamned post, a guitar amp head & Cab.

http://lehle.com/EN/Lehle-Little-Dual

Paul_C

years ago I used an Ibanez Stereo chorus to split the signal into an H||H Studio 100 and a Marshall valve combo.

JohnPerry

Lehle switchers are the best IMHO. And you can often find them at half that on eBaY. The Voodoo Lab Amp Selector is also brilliant and does 4 amps (officially twice as good as two amps). None of these will give you ground loop problems.

Drew_TNBD

Just get a new drummer or bassist who isn't a dick???

randomhandclaps

Drew_fx said:

Just get a new drummer or bassist who isn't a dick???

Thanks, but he's after realistic options!!!

Drew_TNBD

:-j

samzadgan

randomhandclaps said:

Drew_fx said:

Just get a new drummer or bassist who isn't a dick???

Thanks, but he's after realistic options!!!

Indeed!!!

ICBM

randomhandclaps

Sam, I think what ICBM is saying is that you're gonna need a couple of pairs or denim shorts.

ToneControl

I'm assuming you can't get your size in hot pants, but can actually play guitar

Why not get a set of bass pedals? A bit fiddly, but would achieve better results if you practice, they wouldn't be able to sell them if no one could use them, so it might be worth a try

 

ICBM

ToneControl said:

Why not get a set of bass pedals? A bit fiddly, but would achieve better results if you practice, they wouldn't be able to sell them if no one could use them, so it might be worth a try 

I think they're pretty difficult to use standing up - at least the only time I tried they were, although I'm not renowned for my foot/balance coordination - so you might end up looking a bit 70s Genesis/Yes... but it might work.

I was just being a bit funny with Hot Pants Girl. Her style is way more Jack White than anything... it was really just to show the amps she uses - a Bassman and a Hotrod Deluxe. Gets a pretty big sound with just a Mustang and a couple of dirt pedals, but it's hardly Doom.

Actually the "Bassman" - that version - is a nearly useless bass amp. If you want real bottom end in the sound, I'd use an actual modern bass amp for the low-end, probably with 15" speakers rather than 10s as they tend to be a bit more 'growly'.

ThePrettyDamned

Would the signal chain be:

Guitar - stereo splitter - (a) distortion - amp
(b) pog - distortion - bass amp

? No idea how splitters or stereo effects pedals really work, but having a stereo chorus would make things massive...

samzadgan

@ICBM thanks for the vid, but i think i have better legs than her! But the bassman got me thinking...like you say the second amp could be a bassman with a 2x15 cab and an octave pedal.

So looking at chain...i would probably have something like this:

Guitar > tuner > compressor> switcher pedal > then that goes 2 ways:

1. Dirt pedals> noise gate > mod effects > guitar amp
2. Octave/fuzz pedal > bassman amp

This is becoming quite an expensive idea!

IvisonGuitars

I just picked up a used Lehle Dual for under half retail. It's a stunning piece of kit, bomb proof and has a transformer on each output which eliminates the ground loop hum problem completely.

If you are seriously looking to use a dual amp set up full time, in my opinion, you shouldn't scrimp on the switched/signal splitter part and go for the best you can afford. It'll save you major hassle & give you hum free gigs for years :-)

ICBM

samzadgan said:

@ICBM thanks for the vid, but i think i have better legs than her! But the bassman got me thinking...like you say the second amp could be a bassman with a 2x15 cab and an octave pedal.

So looking at chain...i would probably have something like this:

Guitar > tuner > compressor> switcher pedal > then that goes 2 ways:

1. Dirt pedals> noise gate > mod effects > guitar amp
2. Octave/fuzz pedal > bassman amp

This is becoming quite an expensive idea!

Yes, a Bassman *head* and a 15" or 2x15" cab would be an excellent choice - they handle the low frequencies properly but still sound 'guitary' enough. Possibly the best-sounding plain amp I ever had was my much-missed '64 BF Bassman.

You can pick up fairly low-powered 2x15"s very cheaply - they're big (though not always that heavy) and modern bass players don't want them unless they can handle at least 300W.

I also wouldn't rule out an old-school solid-state bass amp - something like a Peavey Centurion - for the same reason, modern bass players don't want to know about any 100W bass head which sounds like a giant fuzz pedal... but it may be the very thing you need.