Bastard Feedback !

harpo

playing gigs every weekend and only have this trouble very rarely....last night was a great example. Only the vocals go through the pa .....soundcraft mixer with active 450 Mackies. 4 sm58's for the vox.. Guitarist has his amp waaaay up loud and punters complain they can't hear the vocals. The pa is right on the edge of feeding back with no room for increasing either the channel gain, the slider or the main slider. The Mackies were dialled to run at just over the 12'o clock position........Guitarist us unable to comprehend the basic concept that he's 'too loud tonight' and just says the pa needs turning up Are there any options I didn't condpsider to get more pa volume without the dreaded feedback ??

Evilmags

More headroom on PA and notch filtering.

BluesyDave

.....new Guitarist?

darcym

fire guitarist, that's a dick move to ruin the band for ego.

Buy smaller guitar amp

BlazeHelm

Sounds like a serious discussion with the guitarist is needed.  Try talking to the guitarist in the way that you'd normally talk to the drummer, that might get through.

John_P

You might squeeze a little more headroom running the mackie's  louder and adjusting the output fader on the desk - not a lot though.

Adding a graphic to drop the feedback frequencies will give you a few more db of headroom - get one that lights up the offending frequencies if you aren't used to doing this.      Feedback destroyers can help but I prefer to use a graphic and have some control.

Experimenting with where you place (and aim) the speakers and mic's could give a little more gain before feedback.

but otherwise you either need a bigger pa or a quieter guitarist.   

Bogwhoppit

As mentioned above.

The guitarist has an issue with maturity and professionalism. Have a chat with him or replace him. From a punters perspective, I'd walk out of the gig in the situation you describe. Good competent guitarists are ten a penny. There are ten standing on every street corner with a desire to perform - many of whom know what the volume knob does on their amp.

ICBM

The guitarist is an idiot. The vocals are always the most important part of the mix.

How is he positioning his amp? If it's at floor level and/or pointing straight out into the audience (I would guess at least one of these things), he needs to first raise it up to where he can hear it properly, and/or tilt it back or point it at an angle across the stage.

I would take a bet his sound is too trebly as well, that accentuates the volume problem and is the other main thing punters hate about loud electric guitars. If he can hear it properly both the volume and treble problems may well solve themselves automatically.

In the unlikely event that he's already doing that and is *still* too loud and bright, you'll probably need a more sophisticated feedback control method for the PA - a decent graphic EQ (31-band preferably) or an automatic feedback destroyer.

imalrightjack

Get a PA suitable for Motorhead to accommodate a dickhead of a guitarist and destroy the audience's hearing.

Or get rid of the dickhead.

hotpot

Yep totally selfish move on the guitarist part to ruin the balance of the mix for his own ego. get shut.

It doesn't make for a good listening experience when he's guitar wanking over the whole band.

TimmyO

In addition to educating the idiot guitarist, check that the physical layout of the PA is as good as it can be ( Mackies forward of the mics, mics not facing directly back at a close rear wall, singers using good mic technique (be up on the mic singing at a sensibly high volume not murmuring so that channel gain doesn't need to be as high)

And if you can run a 31 band graphic eq on the outputs or an output bus you may be able to notch out some of the offending frequency.

But mostLy get the guitarist under control.

John_P

Just another thought before we all grab pitchforks and hang the guitarist...   how loud are the drums?    If the vocals are plenty loud over the drums and he's still too loud then yes he's being too loud but if he's competing with a loud kit it could just be that you need louder vocals.  We don't know how loud the singers are and their mic technique or what amp he is using.    #As well as the steps I listed above to squeeze a bit more out of the pa - could he position his amp so it's not blasting the audience - even angling it up could help.    

Bogwhoppit

John_P said:

Just another thought before we all grab pitchforks and hang the guitarist...   how loud are the drums?    If the vocals are plenty loud over the drums and he's still too loud then yes he's being too loud but if he's competing with a loud kit it could just be that you need louder vocals.    

You're being too considerate. We've already found the guitarist guilty - hang him now !

Pete24v

As already mentioned, the guitarist sounds like a right plum... It's probably his sounds is positioning of his amp, but if he won't turn down you'll never get him to change his set up.

I had a pair of Mackie srm450s for about 5yrs, never had any headroom issues, when gigging my my old rock band. I used to run the mackie volume at 3 o'clock. They took it every weekend no problems, still going strong with their new owner as well.

harpo

Thanks for the input guys It didn't help that the layout of the stage are means said guitarist is a bit around the corner from his amp so whilst he's 'protected' somewhat from the volume me and the punters weren't. The 'get a louder pa' idea isn't really on though ........the pa had plenty of headroom but it was feeding back at the volume it was already ........I dialled out some of the offending top and middle on the desk and I guess a graphiC EQ thingy would help a little but I think I'm firmly in the 'guitarist is a cock' camp ......... Ps the graphic wouldn't stop my ears from ringing this morning though would it ?

p90fool

John_P said:

Just another thought before we all grab pitchforks and hang the guitarist...   how loud are the drums?    If the vocals are plenty loud over the drums and he's still too loud then yes he's being too loud but if he's competing with a loud kit it could just be that you need louder vocals.

Agreed. The drums dictate the volume of the band, and can often be very loud in the mix in a pub band compared to the original recordings so perhaps the guitarist is actually trying to do the right thing.

If the guitar and drums are balanced out front then you have a vocal problem. Having a drums/vocals only mix is not the answer, although it slightly preferable to a drums/guitar only mix.

Teetonetal

Show the guitarist this thread and we can say turn the fuck down to him.

Lew

Jesus we should be supporting our fellow brother... fuck the singer and the rest of the band and the audience. Turn that shit up. RIGHT UP.

Wait 'till he turns up for the next gig with Matt Pikes current tour rig

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/11182347_10155488259450246_2954608741939883854_n.jpg?oh=c5a2907e0ba3e3af52b53ddaf8165ef1&oe=55C33633&__gda__=1439162661_36fec0b0b969bb539a7c06b1dc284822

ICBM

harpo said:

It didn't help that the layout of the stage are means said guitarist is a bit around the corner from his amp so whilst he's 'protected' somewhat from the volume me and the punters weren't.

There's your problem. He can't hear his own amp properly.

You *must* get him to understand that and listen to outside input as to volume and probably tone.

The only other way round it is to soundcheck with him out front with a long cable, and then have the self-discipline not to adjust it once he gets on stage.

57Deluxe

@harpo - get someone to record your gig from the audience with a phone and then play it back to him and let him see what a cocophony he makes!

siraxeman

The phone recording idea isn't a good idea really as we have learned they give you a false idea as they seem to always show the drums overly loud...ie more than they really are the cymbals seem very dominant in e mix but your ears know that's not the case.