Bastard Feedback !

usedtobe

Sack the guitarist!

Sassafras

Report him to Health & Safety.

Phil_aka_Pip

@Lew vocals are wasted space between the guitar solos, right ?

viz

Are the speakers in front of the band?

harpo

Yes mate, the Mackies are out front ....it's nothing that simple.....I've been gigging for over 25 years ;-)

Lew

25 years and you didn't know that the guitar needs to be louder than anything else?

stonevibe

Go acoustic.

Andyjr1515

It's the reason we put pretty much everything through the PA...and I have the sliders next to me, just in case he discovers how to adjust his boost pedal!

viz

harpo said:

Yes mate, the Mackies are out front ....it's nothing that simple.....I've been gigging for over 25 years ;-)

OK

harpo

Sorry @viz I didn't mean to sound like a twat

viz

's alright you weren't really, just that I didn't know so thought it could be good advice - to a novice anyway! anyway hope you get it sorted.

timmysoft

Put some of the nasty frequencies back into the vocals, I find a bit of 2k always gets the vocals heard.

Phil_aka_Pip

timmysoft said:

Put some of the nasty frequencies back into the vocals, I find a bit of 2k always gets the vocals heard.

I used to do that (adding 3k made people sound like James Taylor!) but in the end I learned it was safer to cut them from everything else. boosting anything is bound to cause trouble

ESBlonde

There has been some good information already and the guitarist needs a slap/some education, but I'll weigh in with some other things.

Are all the mics identical make and model? Trying to cull feedback of assorted mics with differing peaks is a hiding to nothing. You say 4 SM58s, are they all genuine or is one a Chinese copy?

Are there any monitors on stage for the vocals, if not how do you hear to pitch vocals.

Be aware of the pick up pattern of the mics in use. The 58' is an cardoid (heart shaped) pattern which is quite wide for some high noise situations. Apart from positioning of any monitors in the nul spot, look to avoid any reflections from close walls or low ceilings.

A graphic EQ is a bit of a sledgehammer to crack a nut, it works but at the expense of a lump of useful frequency of the voice and sets up extra nodes in multiples of the original frequency that can then need hacking out too. They were used 30 years ago because nothing better existed but today a digital parametric EQ of 'feedback eliminator' when used properly is significantly more effective in the proper hands. Never cut more than 3 ringing frequencies what ever device you use, this just leads to mushy incomprehensible sound.

Does the basic rig sound good before and messing about with the desk EQ flat/centred during soundcheck. If you have to start with the tone controls screwed all over before you even wind up the volume you are on to a lost cause and might have bigger issues. Positioning of loudspeakers can and does make a difference to how they sound, if it sounds cack move them away from walls/ the stage etc and try again.

Finally are you all kissing the grill when you sing and do all the mics need to be open at the same time? Each mic you add to the mix will reduce the overall gain available to the others. Is the lead vocalist the same for all the songs and if so are the other mics relatively too loud?

Live sound reinforcement is a science all on it's own and experience of what works often comes the hard way.

p90fool

Have a wisdom ESBlond, I've been battling feedback in our fairly quiet band for about 18months until I tried my own Audio Technica instead of the singer's usual SM58.

I haven't had a chance to take it apart yet but I wouldn't be surprised if hers was a fake, the difference in good clean gain was night and day.

harpo

Some useful info there matey. We all (excerpt the guitarist!) use iems ....that brings a problem in itself in that his mic picks up his amp so Fekin much of his loud amp that it actually peaks in my iem even when I have the monitor side rolled right off and the aux 1 (which I'm in) rolled fully on. vocalist (me) sings all songs, the rest are for backing vox and generally are not so loud As far as I'm aware the SM's are genuine, but interestingly my mic stand is always microphonic??? I don't know whether that's relevant ??

John_P

^ If I'm reading that correctly, it sounds like the gain on his channel of the desk is way out.   

If the channel gains are all set correctly you should be able set the aux to balance the levels in your iem easily.    Apologies if I'm stating the obvious but if the channel gains aren't set correctly you'll be running out of headroom quickly and won't help with the feedback issues.    

Reading the comments about the stage positions is still the most likely cause of his problem though - if he can't hear his amp clearly and you can then he needs to move it or listen to your advice about levels.

mike257

An SM58 is never my first choice on a tight stage with loud backline.  I'd suggest trying mics with a tighter pickup pattern - my current go-to is an AKG D5.  I prefer the way they sound in general, but they're much more resistant to feedback in those kind of setups than the 58.

Overly loud backline can kill a mix even in a 700 capacity venue with a massive PA.  In a small, tight space like a pub gig you NEED to have discipline.  Unfortunately some musicians want to hear themselves on stage the same way they hear themselves screaming along to their record collection with their amp cranked at home, and don't consider for a second what their amp might be throwing round the room.  Give him a slap and tell him to turn it down - all the tips about tone and amp positioning are spot on.

ICBM

He just has to turn the amp down. Period.

If he thinks he can't hear enough of it and doesn't want IEMs, get him a small wedge monitor. But orienting the amp so it points at him rather than at everyone else will probably do both jobs...

If he can't get "the right sound" at anything less than that volume he needs a smaller amp or an attenuator.

ESBlonde

First rule of a good PA/band mix. Get it right at source. That leaves minimal tweaking with the gear and it's inherent limitations (that goes for the massive rigs too btw).
In your position I would
1) Cuff the twunt 'round the 'ead like and turn him down.
2) Get a Behringer feedback destroyer (dangerous) or the digital EQ unit (the Ultracurve) which is favourite for the parametric and graphic eg with filters. (the old 8024 2U version is great but probably needs the battery replaced by now)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BEHRINGER-ULTRA-CURVE-DSP-8024-ULTRA-DYNE-PRO-DSP-9024-AUDIO-PROCESSOR-MASTERING-/301632525993?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item463ab316a9
3) learn how to use the Ultracurve filters.
4) Get a Shure Beta 57a or 58a with the different hypercardoid pickup pattern for yourself or selves.

Short of a lot of extra expense that gets you a few more dB of gain before feedback, at high volumes the increased GBF can be lost to a wanker playing too loud all too easily.