Octatonic's guitar buildery thread

octatonic

GuitarMonkey said:

octatonic said:

I am doing the binding on the back and I have to do it by hand.

I COULD do it with a router- it would take about 20 mins and be pretty much perfect but they want it to be done by hand.

Where is the rationale in that? Are they planning for post-apocalypse when we no longer have an electricity supply?

Excellent work by the way, I think you're doing an amazing job.

It shows skill, I guess.

Not even the lecturers do it by hand very often.

Binding by hand is definitely a test of skill and technique.

and thank you.

JookyChap

I'd kinda planned to leave this thread alone until I saw the NGD but couldn't resist any longer and have just gone through it twice and loved every minute. Can't wait to see the end result.

Absolutely brilliant thing to be doing, and stunning work/attention to detail...

Just one thing, you know you can just buy an acoustic for, like, fifty quid and save all this hassle?

Misterg

I did notice that they let you use a router for the truss-rod slot....

I think I'd find it terribly frustrating to do that by hand when I know how quickly it could be done with a router. Yet another reason why I shouldn't even contemplate making an acoustic. Ever.

Keep up the good work!

WezV

I don't always get the rationale behind using handtools for the sake of it.  some people make a big deal of it but for me the point is lost unelss the same maker has chopped down the tree and processed the raw lumber themselves.... we all choose the level of short cut we are happy with, very few take no short cuts at all

 

but in this case i am fully on board with it.  You don't need that skill for this particular guitar, but one day you may build something where a router won't work and you have no choice but to get the handtools out.  Now you are ready for that day

ThePrettyDamned

I'm with @wezv. It's an educational course to prepare you for luthiery, not building any old acoustic, but being able to meet a customer's requirements.

Besides, you're doing a great job. It's a hugely involved process, but it's really taking shape.

Still my favourite thread of all time on here or mr.

JayGee

WezV said:

I don't always get the rationale behind using handtools for the sake of it.  some people make a big deal of it but for me the point is lost unelss the same maker has chopped down the tree and processed the raw lumber themselves.... we all choose the level of short cut we are happy with, very few take no short cuts at all

 

but in this case i am fully on board with it.  You don't need that skill for this particular guitar, but one day you may build something where a router won't work and you have no choice but to get the handtools out.  Now you are ready for that day

This. It's the equivalent of Victorian/Edwardian Ladies spending hour upon hour hand-stitching a sampler, it's not about the end product which is important, it's acquiring/demonstrating a particular repertoire of skills and techniques[1]. That and thesheer kudos of being able to point at it, look someone in the eye and say "I did that..."

[1] I'll take a wild guess that if someone was looking for a first job, a commission, or some repair work after completing the course this would be part of your portfolio - "Yes, I can do binding using hand tools - here's one I made earlier!".

octatonic

Well, I'm annoyed.

Managed to put a scalpel through my right index finger today.

Had to go to A&E and have it stitched.

Might have some nerve damage- not sure, will know next week- I need to wait for the pain to decrease  to see if there is any numbness in the finger.

Really annoyed about it but it was entirely my own fault.

There is something about Friday afternoons that doesn't agree with me- I cut myself a few months ago on a Friday afternoon with a chisel.

On the binding issue- it is a bone of contention- virtually no-one will do it by hand although if you are restoring a guitar worth a lot of money you might need to break out the chisel and scalpel to do it properly.

I personally see it as worthwhile, todays finger slicing not withstanding.

It is all part of the learning process.

Fuck my hand hurts.

ThePrettyDamned

Oh man, hope you have a quick recovery.

You can join @gspbasses in the injury corner.

octatonic

Thanks TPD.

It was bad enough I went into shock- sweating, shaking, grey faced- the works.

Fucking sucks!

Misterg

octatonic said:

It was bad enough I went into shock- sweating, shaking, grey faced- the works.

Fucking sucks!

Never mind that! - Did you get blood on the guitar?

octatonic

Misterg said:

octatonic said:

It was bad enough I went into shock- sweating, shaking, grey faced- the works.

Fucking sucks!

Never mind that! - Did you get blood on the guitar?

No- I was just putting a blade on- nowhere near the guitar.

Misterg

Phew!

err... Get well soon...

octatonic

Been back for a week and a bit working on the guitar.

Hand is mostly healed but not 100%.

I have had a fucking nightmare doing the binding by hand.

It is really, really tough.

In the end, today, I admitted defeat and broke out the router.

It is SO much a better way to do it.

Within an hour I have a nicely router channel ready for the binding.

The problem was keeping the channel at right angles- a slight miscalculation with the chisel and you have dug too much out, which meant I had to go further back all the way around.

My 2mm channel is now 4mm because of this and I really don't think I would shave fixed it if it wasn't for the router.

I'll take a pic tomorrow and post it.

Router technique is tricky too- you have to back cut at certain points to avoid tear out- but back cutting with a router is fraught in itself.

randomhandclaps

octatonic said:

Router technique is tricky too- you have to back cut at certain points to avoid tear out- but back cutting with a router is fraught in itself.

Certainly trying to pick the lesser of two evils there.

ThePrettyDamned

You gave it a good shot though!

So, er... Pics?

Rocker

Glad to read that you are back in action @Octatonic.  Looking forward to the pics.  Extremely impressed by your work.

octatonic

Today was good- I bent some ebony binding ready for glueing.

Some pics of the binding routes- a bit of burn but it will all be covered by the binding.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/t31/p180x540/1960991_466427213487065_1991049888_o.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/t31/p180x540/1962583_466427250153728_679597447_o.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t31/p180x540/1617650_466427276820392_1417013065_o.jpg

octatonic

Last week has been getting the back binding on.

I have one half done completely and I have the first line of purfling done on the other side.

It is fairly careful work- I am using hide glue, which enables me to reflow the glue by heating it (on a bending iron) and then pressing any bits not quite right into place- much better than using Titebond I think.

I have a 4mm channel that is 6mm deep- the binding is 3 pieces- a 1mm black knife cut veneer purfling, a 1.5mm BWBW purfling and then a 2mm ebony binding.

The purfling is full height- 6mm, which I had to get in especially.

Once I've scraped back the ebony it looks really great- the width of the ebony comes down to around 1.5mm and it matches the inner veneer quite nicely.

I forgot to take pics but I will tomorrow.

Until then here is Scarlett.

She is hungry.

Always.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1/1947470_469557226507397_796257744_n.jpg

chillidoggy

Despite the fact that Scarlett is hungry, she still looks cute!

I'm curious, what's the actual build-time like on the acoustic, taking aside that fact that you're doing the course?  I'm thinking it's way more than an electric? I've probably mentioned it before but it might explain why some of the quality offerings from Taylor,Martin etc are expensive, cost of materials excepted.

octatonic

chillidoggy said:

Despite the fact that Scarlett is hungry, she still looks cute!

I'm curious, what's the actual build-time like on the acoustic, taking aside that fact that you're doing the course?  I'm thinking it's way more than an electric? I've probably mentioned it before but it might explain why some of the quality offerings from Taylor,Martin etc are expensive, cost of materials excepted.

Yes, she is a cutey.

She is 8 in March- getting older and slowing down but she is so gentle and funny.

Build time- well, I am building in 3 hour blocks, usually 20-30 hours a week, sharing a workshop with other people and a lot of the techniques are for the first time it is very slow.

This guitar will take me all year- I might get done by May, a month before the school year ends I guess.

Once I am set up to do it properly it will be quicker because I will be better and I will be building more than one guitar at once.

6 weeks is typical for a build time for a pro- but it depends on a lot of different things and building 3-6 guitars at once.

Building a dozen guitars a year is doable for a one man operation I think- maybe more, maybe less- it depends on so many things.

Martin/Taylor are a vastly different enterprise- it is mostly a factory made, commercial product- that isn't a criticism, at all- but it is a totally different thing.

They aren't hand made- some stuff is but you have one person sitting there doing braces, and nothing else- and another person doing binding and nothing else.

That isn't for me- I don't want to be a factory worker- I want to build from soup to nuts.

I'm personally not against mechanisation or doing stuff with machines- I love being able to build so whatever gets the job done but I am definitely oriented towards being the lone builder, making everything, rather than being one of a team.

Will I make a better product?

Who knows- some guys are amazing at building solo- some are a bit 'rustic'.

I'm just enjoying the process of learning the skills and producing stuff- even if at this stage it isn't very good.

Believe me, it might look good in the pics but this is definitely not going to be a perfect guitar.

Our lecturers reckon it takes half a dozen guitars at least to get to a point where you could sell a product.

Some people never get to that point- it is partly a work ethic issue and it is partly a temperament issue, I think.