Scarf joint?

Rox

I'm still calling shenanigans.

I overlayed a Vintage brand SG headstock over the DC one, and the 'waves', width and the tuner placements, the tuners themselves as well as the truss rod cover are absolutely IDENTICAL. 

The likelihood of different guitars being made in different countries at different times under different manufacturers for different distributors (when not copying the exact same guitar) having those exact same dimensions is infinitesimally small.

ICBM

usedtobe said:

This just in from the seller:

I've had this for over 20 years myself.... Got it from a friend in 1994. He'd had it for a long time too. If you look at the second last picture... the one looking down the guitar from the headstock end, you'll just be able to make out the butterfly motif that's been painted over (before I owned it).

Not a butterfly, but similar. The Hondo II headstock is the first thing I thought of when I saw it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/fuzztone65/Samick/Hondo/DSC08692-1-1.jpg

Edit: Rox is right (see below). Which means the seller is trying to trade on the similarity of the headstock to these old ones to imply it's something it's not.

usedtobe

Indeed..

Rox

That's the two of them overlaid - there's a slight difference due to the slight difference in angle for the pictures.

They're as near as dammit.

Here's the listing for the SG - you can see the TRC is identical, as is the type of nut.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-VS6-SG-Clone-/251995724422?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3aac1d9a86

ICBM

Yes, I think you're right. I don't remember those old Hondos having that sort of proper scarf joint either - I think they're all the flat type where the seam is across the back of the head near the E tuners.

Rox

ICBM said:

Yes, I think you're right. I don't remember those old Hondos having that sort of proper scarf joint either - I think they're all the flat type where the seam is across the back of the head near the E tuners.

The Hondo looks more like the 'nipple' Tokai headstocks.

Rox

And, as shown on the Hondo pic, pretty much every 70's copy I've ever seen has a white nut (and if they replaced them in the 70's, you'd usually get brass - it was de rigeur!

So, what's the likelihood of the TRC, tuners and nut all being replaced by the exact same type on a Vintage?  Plus, 70's copies were mahogany, because it wasn't scarce yet. 

Now, just to say , Vintage brand guitars are fine - no problems at all... but the difference is that a 70's MIJ might run to £250+ on ebay, whereas a modern Vintage won't.

GuitarMonkey

The shape of the pickguard is exactly that of the Vintage.

The body outline is not the same as a Gibson, but it is the same as a Vintage. In the 70s Junior copies shared an outline with a Les Paul DC as Gibson hadn't yet started strong-arming the manufacturers. As evinced by the link the seller shared http://www.music-trade.co.jp/Aria_80020705carte.html

Sarge

I'm no matsumoku expert, but there's nothing on that to suggest a Mats build, modern bridge (identical to my sheridan dc), it's not a Mats colour either.
If that's more than 8 years old I'll bend over and take one for the team!

Sarge

Ask for a pic of the control cavity, that'll tell a tale.

Rox

I could see a mix-up if he was given it a few years ago and his mate said it was a "vintage guitar" - easy to get the wrong end of the stick.

Sarge

Rox;675078" said:

I could see a mix-up if he was given it a few years ago and his mate said it was a "vintage guitar" - easy to get the wrong end of the stick.

Absolutely.

usedtobe

I've asked for a cc pic. Knowing our luck, he'll have replaced the electrics, when he replaced the pickup, though...

Rox

Doesn't matter about the electrics, in all honesty...

What are the odds that every single bit of hardware - tuners, nut, bridge, studs, electrics have all been replaced with ones identical to the ones found on a "modern Vintage"?

Also, if you look at the construction from the back on both guitars:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-VS6-SG-Clone-/251995724422?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3aac1d9a86

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251998661341?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

You'll see that they're both constructed from the same materials in the exact same way - the neck is a different wood than the body; it's much lighter on both guitars - and the scarf joint is in the same place on both of them.

ICBM

I agree. I'd never studied them that closely before but it just isn't credible for there to be so much coincidence otherwise.

Rox

I suppose there will be more and more of this, the better the cheaper guitars get.  The value in modern guitars is incredible - but people want to buy vintage mojo...