War games, and the glorification of conflict

martinw

Grumpyrocker said:

  ... but they are now as mainstream as going to the cinema, watching TV or reading a book. There is no stereotypical gamer.

Really?  As mainstream as watching TV? Does that include the entire population, including females and older people?

No doubt you've got some data to prove that.

Ok, point taken, I was stereotyping for effect, but still.....I'm not completely ignorant thanks.

I live in a typical household with 2 teenage sons, 16 and 18. All 4 of us read books. All 4 of us watch TV and films.

Only 1 of us games.

guitargeek62

Handsome_Chris said:

guitargeek62 said:

And if you've never met a squaddie, they swear a lot more in real life.

As a recently become ex-"squaddie", is this the type of ignorance I can expect to deal with when applying for jobs? Am I wrong to assume that all "civvies" are not as prejudiced as this? 

Depends really, people are different everywhere!

Fwiw, I grew up on an air base and half of my family are either in, or ex-forces - I gladly would be myself if my lungs functioned properly and didn't stop me at the medical (I've tried). To me, being a vet is a plus-point so don't take my comment as an insult - quite the opposite.

guitargeek62

Also;

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-07/05/average-gamer

martinw

guitargeek62 said:

Also;

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-07/05/average-gamer

Sorry Simon, I'll take that poll with a pinch of salt!

The poll was commissioned by Pixwoo, a gaming social network that started in the US in 2012 and has recently begun pushing its service in the UK. As well as looking at age and relationships, the results also took gender into account. "Not only are women just as likely to be gamers as men............"

Yeah right.

Handsome_Chris

Fretwired said:

And toy shops were full of toy guns ... games are just an evolution.

And 7 guns in 1 ...



:-)

It's made of cheap plastic, the grenade launcher doesn't seem up to much, the bunker busting ability of the armor piecing round is questionable, and I don't really think that it is really useable in a combat situation.

In short, we'll take 100,000 at the taxpayers' expense and I'll make sure that I'm heading the committee that brings in it's urgent operational replacement.

Tidy.

martinw

Handsome_Chris said:

 

It's made of cheap plastic, the grenade launcher doesn't seem up to much, the bunker busting ability of the armor piecing round is questionable, and I don't really think that it is really useable in a combat situation.

In short, we'll take 100,000 at the taxpayers' expense and I'll make sure that I'm heading the committee that brings in it's urgent operational replacement.

 

Hearty Lol!

I'm sure the MkII version will be just about useable though.

guitargeek62

martinw said:

guitargeek62 said:

Also;

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-07/05/average-gamer

Sorry Simon, I'll take that poll with a pinch of salt!

The poll was commissioned by Pixwoo, a gaming social network that started in the US in 2012 and has recently begun pushing its service in the UK. As well as looking at age and relationships, the results also took gender into account. "Not only are women just as likely to be gamers as men............"

Yeah right.

Lol - perhaps, but it's hardly the first to say it though! Have a quick google

Emp_Fab

Handsome_Chris said:I never knew that.  In fact on any of my promotion course I never came across it.  I remember Maslow's hierarchy of needs, and Hertzberg's hygiene-motivator theory; but, I have never seen anyone recommended for promotion based on their ability at CoD4. Well, that all sounds fascinating.  If we were talking about methods of selection for promotion.

Which, of course, we aren't.

chillidoggy

Fretwired said:

Emp_Fab said:

I saw the TV ad for Battlefield 4 last night and both Mrs F and I were rather taken aback by the monologue that accompanies it, which refers to "...The glorious mindblowing freedom of all-out war".

Now, I enjoy playing a shooter as much as anyone, but....   I do have a problem with this glorification of war.  Generations of youths who have never experienced real conflict are growing up playing these things where there are no consequences to war, no pain or suffering.  This can't be a good thing, surely ?

Whilst these games are getting ever more realistic on the graphical front, they are depicting an increasingly unrealistic, sanitised version of war.  

I'm not for a moment suggesting that everyone who plays Battlefield 4 is going to rush to join the real army with a crazed bloodlust to destroy everything in a blaze of explosions, but....  I wonder what the consequences of this depiction of war as being an action-packed, exciting, fun activity, could be - particularly in the longer term where these games will inevitably become more immersive with the perfection of virtual reality and they become graphically indistinguishable from reality.

Humbug.

This is not new. I grew up watching Hollywood and British war films - a few were anti-war but most revelled in the action, especially killing Germans. And on holiday in the summer boys would read comic books like Commando which glorified war [see below].



And toy shops were full of toy guns ... games are just an evolution.

And 7 guns in 1 ...



:-)

Did you have a Johnny 7, Fret. If so, you're an utter, utter, bastard! My mum wouldn't buy me one because they  were - "Five pounds. All bar a penny." I consider that I had a deprived childhood as a result.

Fretwired

chillidoggy said:

Fretwired said:

Emp_Fab said:

I saw the TV ad for Battlefield 4 last night and both Mrs F and I were rather taken aback by the monologue that accompanies it, which refers to "...The glorious mindblowing freedom of all-out war".

Now, I enjoy playing a shooter as much as anyone, but....   I do have a problem with this glorification of war.  Generations of youths who have never experienced real conflict are growing up playing these things where there are no consequences to war, no pain or suffering.  This can't be a good thing, surely ?

Whilst these games are getting ever more realistic on the graphical front, they are depicting an increasingly unrealistic, sanitised version of war.  

I'm not for a moment suggesting that everyone who plays Battlefield 4 is going to rush to join the real army with a crazed bloodlust to destroy everything in a blaze of explosions, but....  I wonder what the consequences of this depiction of war as being an action-packed, exciting, fun activity, could be - particularly in the longer term where these games will inevitably become more immersive with the perfection of virtual reality and they become graphically indistinguishable from reality.

Humbug.

This is not new. I grew up watching Hollywood and British war films - a few were anti-war but most revelled in the action, especially killing Germans. And on holiday in the summer boys would read comic books like Commando which glorified war [see below].



And toy shops were full of toy guns ... games are just an evolution.

And 7 guns in 1 ...



:-)

Did you have a Johnny 7, Fret. If so, you're an utter, utter, bastard! My mum wouldn't buy me one because they  were - "Five pounds. All bar a penny." I consider that I had a deprived childhood as a result.

My parents were too patriotic so I had the British equivalent [I can't remember the name] and a German Luger cap gun [so realistic that a policeman asked to see it to check it wasn't real - true story]. My best friend's dad had a British Webley officers revolver from WW1 with a box of bullets.

I also had a Tommy Gunn [British version of Action Man] soldier rather than the US Action Man although my gran bought me an Action Man in the end ... :-)

martinw

Fretwired said:


I also had a Tommy Gunn [British version of Action Man] soldier rather than the US Action Man although my gran bought me an Action Man in the end ... :-)

Action Man was British. The US version was GI Joe.

Handsome_Chris

Emp_Fab said:

Handsome_Chris said:

Emp_Fab said:

I thought it was common knowledge that the military have a vested interest in the promotion of war games...

I never knew that.  In fact on any of my promotion course I never came across it.  I remember Maslow's hierarchy of needs, and Hertzberg's hygiene-motivator theory; but, I have never seen anyone recommended for promotion based on their ability at CoD4.

Well, in that case, as you are so obviously the forum expert on..   on...   one-upmanship, I must surely recant and bow to your superior knowledge.  Thankyou for rendering my opinion null and void.  Did you attend any other courses so I can be suitably corrected in other beliefs too ?

I wouldn't say that I'm an expert on one-upmanship, but thank you for your consideration.

To answer your question about any other courses, I have attended courses such as PRINCE2 and APMP; however, I do not see this as relevant.

Handsome_Chris

Unless... Has the new CoD got a Project Manager in it?  Is he, or she, a maverick who plays by his own rule, no matter what those pen-pushers up in HR say.  I can imagine the cutscene:

SCENE - Boardroom, late afternoon.  Two men having an agitated discussion.

Jock O'Llewellyn (Project Sponsor): Damn it Murphy that's the second Exception Report you raised in this stage - YOU ARE OUT OF CONTROL!

Murphy (Project Manager): You're an old man - you're bowels are out of control, O'Llewellyn.  Pack it in, you haven't got what it takes to be on a project board, let alone be head of one.

JO'L: Damn you, Murphy.  I was on project boards when you were a clerk in a project support office.

Murphy: I was the project support off..

EXPLOSION, six armed men dress like army soldiers or police cops enter the room shoot the place up and stuff.

Lead Terrorist (middle eastern european accent): O'llewellyn, dieeeeeeeeeeee.

In the confusion of more explosions and stuff Murphy escapes.

Next Scene.  Murphy addressing the shareholders at the AGM.

Murphy:  As much as we all miss Jock, we must go forward in line with company strategy.  I personally will be heading up the team that will draft the Business Case to assess if we can have a continued business justification to pursue a project for a course of revenge... total revenge.

Shareholder: What measurable improvement resulting from the result derived from using any of the projects specialist products can we hope to realise. 

And so forth.

@Emp_Fab, I think that you have shown yourself to be the straw donkey.

Emp_Fab

Handsome_Chris said:To answer your question about any other courses, I have attended courses such as PRINCE2 and APMP; however, I do not see this as relevant.

And neither were your references to studies involving promotability for serving personnel, or whatever they were.  Because we weren't talking about that.

Handsome_Chris

@Emp_Fab, are you saying that you did you not mention promotion?

Emp_Fab

Yes, I used the word 'promotion' in "the promotion of war games", not in the context of promoting personnel to a higher rank.

Tell me you didn't really need me to explain that and you're just pulling my plonker.... please.

Emp_Fab

Jesus.......     sometimes.........  8-|

Handsome_Chris

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130308153752/dragoncity/images/5/59/Emoticon-Troll-Dance.gif

TimmyO

dindude

Emp_Fab said:

What's with the hostility ?  If anyone's going to argue their corner, could they at least try to put some reasoning in their response ? Sarky references to humour and the DM don't actually qualify as input into a discussion.  It's a bit like someone on Question Time going "Pffffffftttt !!!  Knobber !!".

Sorry but in my option, it doesn't warrant anything more. Your original post just sounded like a modern version of "oh, that Elvis character gyrating on TV, it's terrible, all young people are going to have casual sex now".

It doesn't give any credit to the human nature of being able to process this stuff and know what's right and wrong in the real world.