NEW ALBUM TRAILER - "Scotch"

thomasross20

No probs @Drew_fx - what is your day job by the way - is it something music-related? I'm assuming so from snippets I've picked up..

Unfortunately I'm a one-man band these days which is ok, but I'm run ragged as I'm doing the guitars, drums (learning the software), bass, mixing (to my best abilities), website, promotion, videos (and learning the software), you name it. I'm spread extremely thin and last weekend was the first in about 3 months I actually got out of the house other than for work or rehearsal - I get home at 6:30pm and from 7pm until 1-2am I'm in front of the computer for this. I'm actually quite drawn in the face and feel pretty ill!! I'm sure if I could get others on board to help things would shape up better but as it is, I want to get it out there and for it to really shape up it'd take more than a year or more - I don't have that time... 

Cirrus

I'd maybe have commented (though we'd have to go into a parallel universe to find out) had I not been off work last week, out and about doing things and hence not on here nearly as much as usual so it passed me by. Drew's right though, you can't get annoyed if people don't engage with your work. I've posted about things I really care about - band music videos, album releases etc, and frankly if a couple of people say nice job I feel pretty pleased at the interaction.

Once over on harmony central forums before they collapsed there was a thread called "post your music" and I decided I'd listen to all the tunes and do little reviews for each person. When I started the thread was two pages long, it took me maybe three hours to listen through all the tracks and post. By the time I posted, there was another two pages, I listened to a couple of hour's worth the next day but by then the thread was 10 pages long. And only a couple of people played the track I put up, as proved by the "plays" counter in soundcloud.

It's just impossible to engage with everything, and I think other musicians are the LEAST likely to engage with your work unless there's some personal connection just because there's already so much music in their lives.

As for your trailer, I like your playing but there's too much going on IMO and the mix is a bit confused - often I found myself focusing on parts that sounded auxiliary to the actual melodic focus. It's hard to mix a track that complicated to guide the listener's attention onto the parts that matter on a second by second basis, it takes a real pro to do that with these kind of almost noise-collage tracks. But don't let that put you off, it's great that you're doing it and you should keep on trucking!

thomasross20

Get your points - I think I'm just slowly losing my mind doing all this. For 3 months or so it's all I've done so I think my mental state has gone a bit feverish........ Apologies to all. Will keep plugging away - I think I'll park this track for now and maybe come back later. I totally underestimated how much work was involved here. This isn't a whole band thing - it's me doing everything (other than earlier input from fretmeister for which I'm thankful). I'm learning lots but by God it's tough.  

BigMonka

My advice, judging by the amount of work it sounds like you're putting in, is to really concentrate on maybe 2 or 3 songs and get them spot on - posting up drafts for feedback as you go. I know how working on a whole album is hard going, and you can also find that you make mistakes on the recording/mixing of one track that then gets replicated in all the others, so getting the feedback early on saves lots of re-work!

Try not to take criticism to heart (very difficult when you've poured so much time&effort in to it), and if asking for feedback then be specific what you're asking about (i.e. composition, mixing, arrangement) as it allows people to make helpful posts even if it's not their style of music. It's very hard to be objective about your own recordings and someone else's fresh ears can be incredibly useful, so sometimes its best not to think of the song as being "finished" when you first put it out there!

Drew_TNBD

thomasross20;788052" said:

No probs @Drew_fx - what is your day job by the way - is it something music-related? I'm assuming so from snippets I've picked up..

I work for FXpansion Audio UK Ltd, and I'm currently dealing with a bunch of buttholes who hate our pricing policy for our latest product update.

/hatetheinternet

thomasross20

Yep, I tend to have three on the go at once so I don't spend too much time on one - inter-song work keeps it a little fresh. I've got a few people I'm bouncing the full tracks off. This isn't going to be a mixed masterpiece at the end but definitely trying to do the best I can with the constraints I have. I think I need to lengthen the demos as the tunes really develop over time and you don't get that by listening to a 1min clip.

thomasross20

Drew_fx said:

thomasross20;788052" said:

No probs @Drew_fx - what is your day job by the way - is it something music-related? I'm assuming so from snippets I've picked up..

I work for FXpansion Audio UK Ltd, and I'm currently dealing with a bunch of buttholes who hate our pricing policy for our latest product update.

/hatetheinternet

That sounds technical! I thought you didn't enjoy your job? I can see how that must help with your production knowledge! Look forward to reading your posts on that in the other thread..!

guitarfishbay

I took a listen to this.

The riff that comes in at 43 seconds is cool.

I think overall the reason the intro isn't quite working is you've got too much going on in the same frequency range.  The lead guitars need less bass in them IMO, as they're stepping over the drone and the strummed guitars.  From the title I assume it is meant to sound like solos over a guitar bagpipe?  

In general I think there's scope in the ideas, I can tell what you're trying to get across.

If I'm being honest A) you're clearly a technically proficient guitarist and you're producing this on your own - which I'd guess is a secondary skill?

Most of the guys here posting recordings started out with the same kind of background, guitar first, production second.

Production isn't just mixing - the arrangements really matter too.  It really does take a lot of time invested to improve that side of things, so don't be discouraged, the only way to learn is to keep going at it.

Ultimately if you are the master of your own creation then you should arrange it how you want, that is part of the whole fun of doing things yourself.  But if you want feedback I think in some places too much is going on at once (such as when the bass lead line chords come in).  But that feeling is also caused by the fact that a lot of the instruments are stepping on each other frequency wise.

Trust me many of the people replying to this thread know just how much work goes in to doing something like this.  I just checked the threads I posted of my own band's 2 singles we did last year - I got replies by 5 people in one thread and 2 in the other.  That was the feedback I got after spending countless hours writing, refining, producing, hundreds of pounds on associated costs (we did a proper video for one track).  But honestly I was happy that some people liked the stuff (I even got a PM from someone which was really cool).

But you know what?  I've listened back and I'm not really happy with either of them, for several reasons, not even counting my skill level at the time...  I think I got sucked into spending time on small things and missed the big picture.  Well I guess we were happy at the time but hindsight etc...

Hopefully I can do better now and we're re-recording them currently for an album.  In terms of mixing/tones etc neither were up to where I want them to be but the biggest improvement we've made since is re-arranging parts so the ideas come across more clearly.  

Drew_TNBD

When I think about how much time I've pissed away on the tiny things... fucking hell... makes me wanna quit life!!

JazzPartyHats

Cool! Slightly schizophrenic instrumental rock! I liked the hyper tapping licks, slightly vai esque. My comment would be to work on arrangement and dynamics.

 It can be very frustrating trying to build interest in your own music. People just don't give a fuck and theres a lot of ego/insecurity involved most of the time. Do what you do and enjoy doing it thats about all you can do.

 I know an awful lot of super talented players struggling to make a living let alone gaining recognition for original material, its why we do it but its pretty much impossible these days. Ive been greeted by total apathy 99% of the time when it comes to my own stuff, you just have to keep banging away at it. Ive learnt to not really give a shit anymore, I totally believe in what I do even if not one else does lol!

Just keep playing dude

thomasross20

@guitarfishbay - thanks for the feedback. Link to your material and I'll listen? 

Agree about frequency range. Will try to filter the lot but wont do much. If I'm feeling up to it, will re-record. BUT I also just want to get the whole thing out - I'm young enough to do another so this isn't the end. Learning along the way. Production defo another skill - these other guys know more than me for sure - I'm trying to soak it all up for next time (and for existing tracks where I can make a difference). 

You got it - bagpipe drone with guitars running over it. I get you regarding lots of stuff going on at once - that was partly the intention and it varies from person to person. Girlfriend thought a lot was going on (lol), jazz friend of mine liked listening to all the different parts, few people here like that, some not - total split (maybe toward the too much part!). 

I gotcha guys... also costing me a small fortune both in time and money (more in time right now). People might think it's a joke when you say "I'm doing an album"  but it's a serious endeavour! There are things I would change and I've not yet released but I know it'd be climbing a mountain to do so and would rather make strides next time round. Not all tracks are like this one - it's varied but I have to complete the rest first....

Drew, you're much better at it than me but I'm with you... the amount of time I can spend on one bar of drums... jesus, never mind EQ and volume tweaks etc to make it sound realistic (again, you can no doubt do a better job than me with that!). 

@JazzPartyHats - thanks! Must admit, I do like listening back to my tracks lol - you'd hope so, right!! I'll check the links in your sig when I get a chance. 

guitarfishbay

@thomasross20 there's this video and another on the YouTube account.



I hear you on just wanting to get it out. Ultimately it is up to you - you can release it whenever you're happy with it. The amount of work it takes can get intense at times for sure.

thomasross20

Hey man, I vividly remember commenting on this!! Because of the purple PRS right? 

I hope I'm right... will check it out when home...

guitarfishbay

Yeah I think you commented when I posted it in another thread. I'm playing the blue PRS, but I own the purple one too - the other guitarist liked the look better than his own guitar.

thomasross20

@guitarfishbay, FWIW both those guitars look amazing.

OK I definitely remember this (so it's memorable !) - I think the video is very well produced and the sound sounds amazing to me - better than I could do lol. I liked the solo - it was lyrical and suited the track. One thing I really wanted to hear.... was the singer going Axl Rose on this track and just doing a high-pitched rock scream at some point - serious! The track is a nice length. 

Listening to your other one now and have subscribed to your channel. First thing that strikes me is that the drums sound amazing on the track. Have you guys thought about doing the chordal work in the higher registers? I think that would sound interesting! Personally, I like the cleanish interludes to the distorted bits. Around 1:40 is cool when you have clean + distorted together - I love when there are two guitars doing different things like that. I haven't commented on bass yet which means it's solid! Singer can hit his notes but would love to hear either grit or something raw in there, if you know what I mean. Think I preferred the first track but both good.

So you release all your singles for free? Considered CDBaby? Who did your video and your recordings? 

guitarfishbay

Thanks for the comments.

An example of arrangement change - there's an early instrumental version of Set The Fuse, recorded with a local producer. The original solo on the demo contained a flashy tapping lick that he suggested I removed for the recording, and in hindsight I think sticking to the more vocal delivery suited the track better.

On Save Me we have split the chorus guitar parts now into a lower and higher guitar, and that sounds much bigger. There are various other tweaks for the album version of that song. We felt the released version of the track wasn't paced right, too many gaps, and some guitar parts were cut (but in hindsight are being reinstated).

The singer has improved delivery now as he's had time to learn (lessons) and just develop in general. He is a fan of singers with high vocals but he's not quite got those genes, so we drop tune the guitars instead lol.

I guess it could be an interesting idea to do a thread on the evolution of a song, after the album versions are released.

Video was done by Rotted Grape Productions. Drums were engineered by two students at SSR Manchester, everything else after was produced by me, mastering at Sterling Sound (though in hindsight should've gone where we could afford mix feedback as my room was almost completely untreated then - the problems were in my mix not their master).

Yes free singles but album will be released via multiple platforms.

I seem to have posted a lot on your thread so I guess if you want to know anything else feel free to send me a PM.

thomasross20

It's great that your singer is getting lessons - some would be too proud to do that!

Yeah I like the vocal style of the solo on Set the Fuse...

Feel free to write whatever in this thread - would rather everybody gained from any insights/info. 

Drew_TNBD

guitarfishbay said:

The singer has improved delivery now as he's had time to learn (lessons) and just develop in general. He is a fan of singers with high vocals but he's not quite got those genes, so we drop tune the guitars instead lol.

Not to derail too much, but the thing singing teachers have been constantly hammering in my brain for the last year is that singing high is all about technique and not genetics. It's quite rare for someone's access to higher notes being limited by genetics or their physiology.

That fact doesn't make them any easier!!

thomasross20

I had a singing teacher for a bit but felt I was getting nowhere. Actually she was still in training. Maybe that's why. I got a few books, read about head voice etc. Agree, doesn't make it any easier lol.. Do you try and hit the high notes, Drew?

Teetonetal

Stumbled on this thread, had a listen so thought I'd comment... 

Not my cup of tea really, but looking beyond that, I thought the track really improved from 45's to the end, some interesting things going but it's very, very busy. clearly you can play well but the mixing is a little flat.

But if you enjoy it and you like it, then keep doing it and don't give up.

As mentioned above getting interest in originals projects can be soul destroying, especially if what you like is not really popular right now... just keep plugging away.