NEW ALBUM TRAILER - "Scotch"

thomasross20

Hey, thanks for listening! 

Mixing is a bit flat for sure, unfortunately can't do too much about it (want to get this out and have a fresh start for new project in future). Listening again I did pan left and right at the start to try and space things out but I think since the guitar tone is so similar it's a frequency thing - big lesson learned for next time, that's for sure! Cheers!

Drew_TNBD

thomasross20 said:

Do you try and hit the high notes, Drew?

I'm trying and have a fairly decent success rate, but certain vowels are harder.

Cirrus

Drew_fx said:

I'm trying and have a fairly decent success rate, but certain vowels are harder.

Do you get that annoying thing where on one song you sound fine, then on another song you can't quite hit the high notes, go to check on the guitar and find the problem note is like two tones lower than one you had no trouble with?

Drives me mad.

thomasross20

I did the Ken Tamplin course - it's ok actually and unlike other teachers you actually hear him sing, but as for most of these courses, there's a lot of overlap in the material. 

guitarfishbay

It all depends what you call high though, and having it be comfortably in your range to sustain it.  I guess I mean something along the lines of Anthony Green

Drew_TNBD

guitarfishbay said:

It all depends what you call high though, and having it be comfortably in your range to sustain it.  I guess I mean something along the lines of Anthony Green

Yeah his stuff is high, and I can't find out too much information about him but a friend told me he has shorter vocal cords than normal, which would translate into only being able to reach high-notes and being classified as a tenor or countertenor. I'm not sure how true that is though.

But all of the SLS teachers I've come across are basically saying that for pop, rock, and other microphone-based singing styles, vocal types aren't really applicable.

I'm far from a great singer. Still a beginner really. I'm technically a baritone. I can hit A4 with stability, and I can go higher than that. But I don't like my tone so much on those higher notes. It's something I am still working on.

For reference (and I know I always throw this one out there, but that's because it's my favourite vocal performance ever!) but at 12:31 in this:


He hits an A4. All of the high screamy notes at the end of that song are A4 actually, with the exception of the very end where he hits A4, slides up to A#4 and back to A4 (it will end no other way)

It's not particularly hard to hit the note. But to hit the note with the right tone... that's where the skill comes in. You can't just blast out those mid to high notes willy nilly, you need to control your breath, your vowel width, your diaphragm. Otherwise you just *will* fuck your cords up.

In that Circa Survive track (love that band btw) at 1:04 he hits A#4 and at 1:08 he hits C#5. But obviously his tone is very different to Maynard from Tool. Even though they're the same note (the A#4). This is all to do with the mix between the chest resonator and the pharyngeal resonator.

Take the vocal track from our 3rd album:


I'm hitting D#4, D4, F4,and the big long note when it goes heavy is G4. So it's not miles away from the Tool clip, but is a fair way off hitting the C#5 that Anthony Green does.

The trick really is to not think of singing in terms of pitch. Pitch is important, but tone and vowel co-ordination is significantly more important. Anyway... just a few thoughts from my perspective. As I say, I'm not a great singer and have only really been trying to do it properly for a year and a half.

Cirrus said:

Drew_fx said:

I'm trying and have a fairly decent success rate, but certain vowels are harder.

Do you get that annoying thing where on one song you sound fine, then on another song you can't quite hit the high notes, go to check on the guitar and find the problem note is like two tones lower than one you had no trouble with?

Drives me mad.

Yeah some days I can't hit notes I could the day or week before. The voice changes a lot, we just don't notice it day to day because we are mostly speaking.

Drew_TNBD

(sorry for the derailment!)

Drew_TNBD

Also to add, I've been working on overdrives and distortions - growling and such... whole different world of self-loathing and misery because you can't do it right! lol.

thomasross20

Lol!!! Must admit growling aint my thing. Not probs to derail

Drew_TNBD

Yeah, you'd sort've instinctively think... growling... oh you just scream your lungs out.

No, not so. As I'm finding out. lol. It's all about overdriving certain resonators to produce certain effects, and it's much quieter than you'd think too.

thomasross20

What I want to get... really... is the GRIT in the rock voice... like Freddie... or the guy out of Foreigner... or Chad Kroeger! When I sing higher / in head voice I also tend to lose some of my natural voice sound, if you know what I mean... 

Drew_TNBD

thomasross20 said:

What I want to get... really... is the GRIT in the rock voice... like Freddie... or the guy out of Foreigner... or Chad Kroeger! When I sing higher / in head voice I also tend to lose some of my natural voice sound, if you know what I mean... 

Yeah I totally get you. On both points.

Singing higher/head voice - you need to strengthen your falsetto. With high notes if you stretch out the timeline of events that produce a successful note... you'll go into head-voice first and then add the chest afterwards. If you go into chest first and then try to add the head, you'll be chest dragging... which is a big no-no coz it mostly sounds shit, and is hard wearing on your cords. Here is a tip - close your mouth and hum a note... if you're not feeling a vibration right under the eyes... then you're mix is wrong. Correct it before you move to making other sounds.

Getting distortions and grit and things like that.... I find the CVT information very useful. They have their own research site here:
http://completevocalinstitute.com/welcome-research-site/

Look at the 'grunt' section for instance and listen to the sound clips, particularly the video clip at the top:
http://completevocalinstitute.com/research/description-and-sound-of-grunt/

You see how when he's demonstrating 'growl' he starts off quite old school soulful... and then goes into death-metal growling, lol. It's all part of the same technique.

The same is true of grit... there are certain techniques that when combined with certain resonator combinations, produce certain results. But the technique is the same across the board, pretty much.

thomasross20

WIll check those links out, thanks. 

I know exactly what you mean regarding the vibration!

PolarityMan

Drew_fx said:

Also to add, I've been working on overdrives and distortions - growling and such... whole different world of self-loathing and misery because you can't do it right! lol.

Thing I cant wrap around my head is how to do the sort of pitched not quite shouting/screaming not quite singing thing. This sort of thing is all over Darkest Days by Stabbing Westward for example.

I'm a totally balls singer though

guitarfishbay

I'm not familiar with that band. What is interesting though is some 'pitched' metal stuff is multi tracked so there's a sung vocal and a screamed one at the same time.

For an example: compare the album (Ross Robinson?) and Terry Date mixes of Slipknot - Wait and Bleed. They're both on YouTube. Terry's version has favoured the sung vocal in the mix of the heavy verses (about 30 seconds in).

PolarityMan

Not as shouty as slipknot Im thinking like this:

0:56 ish

Drew_TNBD

guitarfishbay said:

I'm not familiar with that band. What is interesting though is some 'pitched' metal stuff is multi tracked so there's a sung vocal and a screamed one at the same time.

Yeah we did that for 'Black Iron Prison' on our 2nd album, at least the verses anyway.

guitarfishbay said:

I'm not familiar with that band. What is interesting though is some 'pitched' metal stuff is multi tracked so there's a sung vocal and a screamed one at the same time.

That sort of thing... I think CVT calls it 'creaking'...
http://completevocalinstitute.com/research/description-and-sound-of-creak-creaking-2/

Checkout the creaking in overdrive and edge modes.

My favourite example of that sort of thing is:


Checkout the word 'mind' at 0:28.

Fuck knows how you safely do any of that stuff!

PolarityMan

Love that song.