Which high end acoustic with slim neck- budget of £3000 (new)

woody

Mcilroy s have c section,reasonably chunky though.might not be your thing.

buckfast

Perhaps a custom order from McIlroy would be the way to go.

So which of Collings / H&D / Santa Cruz / Bourgeois / Lowden / McIlroy / Avalon generally have slim neck profiles as standard? (along with a 1 11/16 nut) ?

woody

I think the h&d would be neck profile that you would be looking for..the irish guitars are a little bulky.

Lewy

buckfast said:

One thing concerns me, and I have seen this from many different sources, and that is some Collings guitars being described as "stiff". If this relates to the playability, then I'm really concerned. Although, I don't really know what they mean by "stiff"? High string tension perhaps? Or stiff in terms of build - in that it needs time to "open up"?

This tends to come out in comparison to Martins. Collings have a slightly longer scale length than Martins (25.5" on Collings, 25.4" on Martin) which affects the feel somewhat and makes them less forgiving. There is a short scale custom option in the OM2H, though.

It may also come from the fact that you see more Collings with Adirondack tops as opposed to Sitka and Adirondack is technically a stiffer material. Having never done a side by side comparison between identical guitars save for the different types of spruce I couldn't attest to the effect on feel that might have but I guess it's possible.

Either way my experience of Collings (my main guitar is a D1A) is in line with what richardhomer says. You can set them up to be effortless to play but they don't give their best like that. They're more for people who want the acoustic grunt in exchange for a slightly firmer approach.

Bluesman1989

Fancy adding a Sitka OM2H to the collection Lewy?

Lewy

Bluesman1989;817168" said:

Fancy adding a Sitka OM2H to the collection Lewy?

Ha...ask me again 2 kids ago

buckfast

Thanks all.

AuldReekie

AuldReekie said:

crunchman said:

buckfast said:

I have heard many (mostly our friends from the USA) rave about Collings, Santa Cruz, Bourgeois. Any opinions on these?

Andre with your points re Taylor's and UK luthiers. Taylor's just don't have any subtlety and if you want that sort of modern sound, give me Larrivee anyway over them. Re UK luthiers, have never played Martin, Taylor, Collings, Santa Cruz are not in the same league as the Model C that I had built by Nigel Forster in Newcastle, in fact I have never played another acoustic that comes close to it in terms of responsiveness and depth of tone. Most of the Santa Cruz I've played have been absolutely brilliant.  A 12 fret pre-war spec OOO that I tried once may well have been the best sounding acoustic I've played.  It wouldn't meet your criteria on the neck though.

Collings on the other hand I don't get.  I think @mgaw said it best when he said that they are impeccably built but lack the magic.  They are mostly based on Martins but to me don't sound as good as the higher end Martins.  I'd have a Martin HD28V over the Collings version of a D28 any day.

To be honest a lot of Santa Cruz and Collings guitars are based on Martins.  I'd definitely try a few of the higher end Martins.  Some of them have huge necks, but not all.  They do make a variety of neck profiles.

I would disagree with @mgaw about some of the UK stuff.  There is some very good UK stuff, but having said that I'm not sure that I'd have the confidence to order something as they can vary.  I played dreadnought made by Moon about 10 years ago that I would say is up there with almost anything, but I tried another recently and was totally underwhelmed.  I'd much rather try something first.  Some of the UK makers are stocked by shops so you can try them.  Moon is in a handful of shops and I've played very good stuff in shops by Brook (if you like the neck - I don't), Atkin and David Anthony Reid.  If you are near London then Ivor Mairants might have some of these in.

I played some Rozawood guitars at the London Acoustic show recently that were stunning.  They weren't particularly small necks though.  If you did want to risk the custom order route they would probably make something to your specs - and being in the Czech Republic they are probably going to be a bit cheaper than an equivalent UK or US guitar.

I don't understand why people are recommending Taylors.  There is the odd good one, but mostly they sound thin and tinny.

Have a MciLroy A30 and it is a lovely instrument, beautifully made and a distinctive Celtic tone, however it is not in the same league as the OM style guitar that Nigel Forster built for me nearly10 years ago, a truly awesome guitar, incredibly rich tone with great responsiveness. If you can afford it, he's your luthier

buckfast said:

Perhaps a custom order from McIlroy would be the way to go.

So which of Collings / H&D / Santa Cruz / Bourgeois / Lowden / McIlroy / Avalon generally have slim neck profiles as standard? (along with a 1 11/16 nut) ?

CloudNine

The difference in tone between the Irish and American guitars listed above is pretty dramatic ime. Not better, or worse, just opposite ends of the spectrum. Defo need to figure out which of those sounds is needed before even starting to worry about the neck profiles...

Bluesman1989

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJAA3cw9hmE

terada

buckfast said:

Thanks for all the comments.

Yes, I prefer lightly built acoustics too. I have a cheap Blueridge BR-160 which is lightly built and sounds amazing.

I also agree on some of the opinions above on Taylors - most of them are pretty average to me.

I will look into Bourgeois a bit more, although I have heard others comment that Collings have slimmer necks than the Bourgeois. (maybe they mean the nut width, as I dont think that Bourgeois do 1 11/16 nut width, but Collings do).

Requirements are:

1 11/16 nut width + Slim neck profile + lightly built + well known brand

 

As far as I can tell, you want either of the following:

Martin M36 (~£2000) M Sized body, slim neck, spruce/rosewood, 5/16'' scalloped (light) bracing, 11/16" nut

Martin HD35 (~2300) Dreadnaught Sized body, slim neck, spruce/rosewood, 4/16'' scalloped (extra light) bracing, 11/16" nut

I have one of the latter, and it sounds stunning (if I don't say so myself).

Bluesman1989

Here's an M36 https://www.tfoa.eu/en/shop-product/3524/martin-m-36-om-depth-medium-jumbo-width-new-

Rudi always has a great selection of guitars and the CS there is always top notch - Might be worth having a browse

Cabicular

Alistair Atkin will knock you up exactly why you want I have 3 of his acoustics The superjumbo has a very slim narrow neck. I actually find it a bit uncomfortable for me (big hands) but you would like it Up there and I have owned and played a LOT of high end stuff

Cabicular

Jimmy Moon is also well known and well used up here

buckfast

Ended up buying a Collings OM2H from Rudi!

ToneControl

CloudNine said:

The difference in tone between the Irish and American guitars listed above is pretty dramatic ime. Not better, or worse, just opposite ends of the spectrum. Defo need to figure out which of those sounds is needed before even starting to worry about the neck profiles...

but there are American guitars which are similar to the Lowden family, e.g. Goodalls, which are often compared with them

ToneControl

Bluesman1989 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJAA3cw9hmE

there is a huge variety of sounds available from USA builders, as a visit to the acoustic music company in Brighton demonstrated for me

I don't believe there is any specific European sound, steel strung guitars were invented in the USA, and the sounds I've heard from UK  builders are a subset of the variety available from the USA

ToneControl

buckfast said:

. I have relatively small hands and love these guitars for their slim neck profiles along with the narrow nut widths. 

I am currently saving for a lifetime guitar - something with supreme playability (that fits my needs, ie something with a slim neck profile) and excellent tone. I prefer spruce / rosewood guitars, and would prefer an OM size (but still wouldn't rule out a dread) for comfort. 

you have 3 major UK builders available that you can drive to if you are in Ireland

I think all will have demo guitars to try, and once you select one for sound, they could build one with a custom neck

Buying new, you'll get a lot more for your cash than buying USA-made ones

one-man luthiers in the UK can and do build guitars at the same level, but it's more effort to track them down, and they rarely have demo guitars, so you'd be buying a lifetime instrument without trying something first

the biggest selection of acoustics is at the acoustic music shop in Brighton, it would be a good investment to travel there and try 30-50 of them

Lewy

buckfast said:

Ended up buying a Collings OM2H from Rudi!

Excellent work!

buckfast

Now looking for a Dread to complement the Collings OM. Perhaps a D-28?