ODs with a clean blend? (thread formerly known as "Palmer Root effects")

failed_astronaut

@DarnWeight - I'm a proud Pork Loin owner. It's an odd sort of OD pedal in that it doesn't sound like it has a lot of gain on tap at all but it really thickens up an already overdriven tone. It can sometimes get woolly/woofy almost fuzz like. Be warned though, it takes some tweaking as, at first, it will sound like mud. You have to get in about the internal pots. I don't use the clean blend very often but if I wanted to use the PL more as a boost than an OD the clean boost is pretty formidable.

Anyway, hope that helps, it's early and I'll probably re-read this in a few hours and wonder what I was prattling on about!

EricTheWeary

I watched a couple of Sparkledrive demos last night. A small amount of clean blended in did seem to work really well (adding 'sparkle' \m/ ) but after a certain point it just becomes the clean sound with an annoying buzz in the background and not nice. 

gjonesy

I think DAM Ezekiel also has the blend knob - but its more bass oriented

gjonesy

.....and its not cheap

ThePrettyDamned

If it interests you, take a punt on the Palmer. I liked it - it worked well into a gained up amp, beefing everything up for lead tones, but was clear enough for chord playing too.

DarnWeight

Just found a few of the DMB ODs have a clean knob also (American, Lexi, Stellar and Foxy Pirate), and they sound pretty great to me.  Also, not cheap.

failed_astronaut said:

@DarnWeight - I'm a proud Pork Loin owner. It's an odd sort of OD pedal in that it doesn't sound like it has a lot of gain on tap at all but it really thickens up an already overdriven tone. It can sometimes get woolly/woofy almost fuzz like. Be warned though, it takes some tweaking as, at first, it will sound like mud. You have to get in about the internal pots. I don't use the clean blend very often but if I wanted to use the PL more as a boost than an OD the clean boost is pretty formidable.

Anyway, hope that helps, it's early and I'll probably re-read this in a few hours and wonder what I was prattling on about!

Thanks for the report.  I really do like I'm hearing about the Pork Loin.  How's the clarity for chorded/rhythm parts?...I'm guessing that using a little more boost and less OD would address that.

DarnWeight

ThePrettyDamned said:

If it interests you, take a punt on the Palmer. I liked it - it worked well into a gained up amp, beefing everything up for lead tones, but was clear enough for chord playing too.

Given the funds I have available, I'm inclined to give it a try...I'd probably have to sell/trade the Liquid Blues for anything spendier, and although it's too big to haul around, I still like having it available at home for stuff (it makes for an excellent boost/recording preamp into a recording interface).

failed_astronaut

DarnWeight said:

Thanks for the report.  I really do like I'm hearing about the Pork Loin.  How's the clarity for chorded/rhythm parts?...I'm guessing that using a little more boost and less OD would address that.

At the moment I'm not playing a lot of complex chordal stuff but I can have a tinker with it tonight and let you know the results. It's a cracking pedal regardless. Have you watched the gearmandude demo? Not particularly educational but it's worth it for the earth-shacking burp he lets out about 30 seconds in!

thewiddler

I've been really impressed by the T Rex Moller. Cracking sounding, versatile modded tubescreamer with boost and wet/dry mix.

failed_astronaut

failed_astronaut said:

DarnWeight said:

Thanks for the report.  I really do like I'm hearing about the Pork Loin.  How's the clarity for chorded/rhythm parts?...I'm guessing that using a little more boost and less OD would address that.

Ok, at our rehearsal on Saturday, I fiddled about with my settings a bit. I blended in about a quarter clean boost and dialed the curve know to about mid-way (the curve controls the frequency repsonse of the OD) by narrowing that, I actually got a tighter OD that blended better with our other guitarist. I was using the amp drive channel and brought in the PL to thicken that sound and for solos. I was in a stratty mood so used the split neck coil on my Axis. It all sounded pretty good from where I was standing.

The rehearsal, on the other hand, was a total disaster!

Maxi

thewiddler said:

I've been really impressed by the T Rex Moller. Cracking sounding, versatile modded tubescreamer with boost and wet/dry mix.

I was using a bad monkey a couple of days ago as a boost to one of my fet home builds as well as on its own ...now I dont know the schem but I felt sure I could hear a destinction between the low end overdrive and high end overdrive like the lows were more clean or something . Is that typical how TS type circuits perform or is the BM different apart from the obvious separate high low controls ? Ive never actually owned an ibanez TS.

ThePrettyDamned

Maxi said:

thewiddler said:

I've been really impressed by the T Rex Moller. Cracking sounding, versatile modded tubescreamer with boost and wet/dry mix.

I was using a bad monkey a couple of days ago as a boost to one of my fet home builds as well as on its own ...now I dont know the schem but I felt sure I could hear a destinction between the low end overdrive and high end overdrive like the lows were more clean or something . Is that typical how TS type circuits perform or is the BM different apart from the obvious separate high low controls ? Ive never actually owned an ibanez TS.

It's quite typical - my Route 66, even with the gain cranked, has a LOT of definition, and if you really spank the strings, you can hear this quality jump out.  I don't think it IS clean signal, just different distortion characteristics.  Could be wrong though.

Maxi

When you say "different distortion characteristics" do you mean it sounds like less distortion for low's ? I thought about it some more and it could just be that the O.D is too smooth too clean to be noticed as much on low's vs highs ..perhaps this is what your talking about .

I'll have to spend a bit more time on cleaner pedals to train me ears I expect

ThePrettyDamned

Maxi said:

When you say "different distortion characteristics" do you mean it sounds like less distortion for low's ? I thought about it some more and it could just be that the O.D is too smooth too clean to be noticed as much on low's vs highs ..perhaps this is what your talking about .

I'll have to spend a bit more time on cleaner pedals to train me ears I expect

Yeah, mids and high mids are distorted, but lows are much cleaner, especially if you really hit the strings.  

Part of the 'mid hump', as people call it, of a tubescreamer, I suspect. Because those more audible mids are jumping out, the lows are a bit more subdued but are, to my ears, cleaner.  Blending in a clean signal basically means you get clean everywhere, as well as the driven sound.

Maxi

Theres def something going on there because I can get quite a flat response with the high and low pots set accordingly , sounds like the clipping stage is focused on a particular band or the lows are treated differently because theyre still there and lots of them .

Understood about the clean signal blending , ive made a few of those circuits for utility pedals .

Edit:

I soon solved that doubt . I plugged in my bass guitar and the lows were quite smoothly overdriven so no special focus on band width re clipping

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ThePrettyDamned

Maxi said:

Theres def something going on there because I can get quite a flat response with the high and low pots set accordingly , sounds like the clipping stage is focused on a particular band or the lows are treated differently because theyre still there and lots of them .

Understood about the clean signal blending , ive made a few of those circuits for utility pedals .

Edit:

I soon solved that doubt . I plugged in my bass guitar and the lows were quite smoothly overdriven so no special focus on band width re clipping

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Hmm odd, I just tried the same test and got the same result.

My guitar has exceptionally high output pickups, though.  You can only hear this 'cleanness' when the gain is down, volume is up and guitar strings are being hit hard.  I've noticed it on every tubescreamer pedal I've ever tried, so not sure what it is.  Maybe others would just call it 'clarity'.

DarnWeight

So, on rifling through my parts storage (OK OK, it's a shoebox) I found an already soldered-up PCB+Pot for a JFET Blend circuit (it's this one).  I'd bought this and got it all lined up for a pedal build many months ago, which it never made it into.  Instead, I "filed" it and completely blanked the experience, Men-In-Black style.  What can I say?...it's been a busy year.

So, looks like I'll be knocking together a clone of somedrive-or-other and whacking this in.  Should save me a few bob.  I'll return and update this thread when I've got something new to report (provided I don't forget, again).

DarnWeight

Bumping this with the results of my efforts.  Here it is...

It's a pedalparts Red Llama clone incorporating one of their standard one-knob Blender circuits.  Took a bit of debugging 'cos I had a blown input cap on the Blender...I ended up jumpering this and leaving the input raw (the RL side has it's own input cap).  Getting a bit of switch popping at the moment, but I think I know how to remedy that (reroute some of the grounds).

I love it.  I read somewhere that mix controls work best with more "non-boosty" circuits, but despite the huge amount of volume boost available through the Llama, I'm finding it works like a dream.  In fact, dialling up the volume and dialling the mix down into the 70-100% zone helps tame the volume whilst keeping the drive juicy and adding in a dose of clarity.  The Llama has a nice range too, from slightly-driven boost to drive to near-fuzz...so with the mix control I can get a really good range of sounds from it.

The toner-transfer isn't the best but hey, this is DIY, people!

failed_astronaut

Nice, love the graphic as well. And although it's not a pork loin, it looks like a way huge design has got you where you want to be in the end.

DarnWeight

failed_astronaut said:

Nice, love the graphic as well. And although it's not a pork loin, it looks like a way huge design has got you where you want to be in the end.

Yeah, cheers.  The pork loin basically sold me on the idea of using an OD with some colour rather than a "transparent"-type drive.  I've always fancied building a Llama (pretty simple, nice range, sounds good with bass too) so when I uncovered the Blender, thought I'd give it a crack.

I'm finding I have to dial back the RL level a hair with the Blender's trimmer to stop it oscillating (there's a positive feedback path in there which needs to be dealt with), but the Llama has a ton of boost on tap, so I can afford to lose a little volume.