Marc Bolan's Les Paul resurfaces on MLP forum

ourmaninthenorth

ICBM said:

WezV said:

If I wanted to increase the neck angle I would be removing wood closer to the body edge of the join rather than adding wood wood to the pickup edge. Its the same wood removal that would happen from excessive sanding with the neck removed.

But then the binding would end up too thin, or you'd have to re-bind it… which would leave the body looking too thin.

WezV said:

I think there is a good chance the body is genuine, someone undervalued the Bolan significance and tried to convert it to a burst. Did a bad job and realised the only value left was the Bolan connection. Etc....

Except that I think Bolan's was a converted '52 (there's really no other explanation for the extremely low bridge in the pics of him with it), and there's no evidence of a P90 rout in this one - the front corners of the hole would be missing and fitted with blocks.

I'll bet you a pint it's not Bolan's guitar .

I'll take that bet. 

ICBM

WezV said:

The main question. If you were renecking a guitar because it had similar grain to Bolan's and you decided it was a good candidate for a fake, why would you not stick a custom neck on? Arguments of careful fakery fall done when you look at how bad the reneck has been done

It needs to look like an amateurish re-re-neck - because if you put a Custom neck on it with large pearl inlays, sooner or later a good pic of the original will be found and the pearl inlays won't match.

That's how Jimi's V was conclusively identified, and I think Frampton's Custom and Lennon's J-160E too.

So if it was me, I would put another *obviously* wrong neck on it.

If this is, as I think, a fake, it's been done very cleverly and with a fair bit of thought into how not to try to make it *too* perfect - because you can't - but leave it ambiguous enough that someone will convince themselves without the seller *actually* claiming it's Bolan's… as he now subtly seems to have done.

After all, the real one is probably one of the most valuable 'lost' instruments out there, and it's well worth going to a lot of trouble over.

WezV

The owner is clearly worried about owning a guitar which could well have s legal case surrounding it in the near future.

You're suggesting someone matched body wood closely but couldn't do the same with pearl?

Fyi I actually think the Jimi V was a much easier one to fake. A 5th fret dot with a distinctive stripe and some paint under the guard was most of the evidence on that one. I have had striped pearl dots I could have used for that, give me a hundred and there would be another one. Give me a handful of pearl blanks and i could easily fake one

Evilmags

It is also convenient that its famous owner has long since died, making conclusive identification that bit harder. I´d imagine the Beano guitar is the most valuable lost Lester in the pantheon of mythical lost guitars. Their are a fair few lost Hendrix strats but as he never really played any single guitar for a long period and strats of that era are a lot more common than lesters. 

If it was that guitar it might explain why the reneck is so shoddy and wrong. I´d imagine most respectable restorers of valuable instruments would have recognized it and reported it/ talked to the pres / photographed it.

ICBM

WezV said:

You're suggesting someone matched body wood closely but couldn't do the same with pearl?

I don't think the body wood does match closely - superficially in some areas, but not in any detail anywhere - hence why it's necessary for it to have been heavily sanded for it to be the same guitar. (And I still don't think it's close enough for that, to be honest.) Matching a number of large rectangular pearl inlays is much harder, I think. The Jimi one wasn't just that one inlay, although it was the most obvious - in the best photo you could see they all matched.

I would love it to be Bolan's guitar because it would enable the true age of the body to be settled once and for all - obviously if it was a '52 it will have P90 routs and filled screw holes in the rim - but I really don't think it is.

WezV

Also, the Hendrix v identified by a pearl dot was late 90's. I remember the guy who discovered it struggled to sell the guitar because no one was convinced back then and it all became an exciting could be story. It sold for a lot a few years later.

This conversion and reneck would pre-date such things

WezV

Also, identification from pearl only works if it has distinguishing features. Lots is plain, lots of customs have plain blocks. Bolans seems to have the odd shadow but be mostly plain. Fairly sure I could fake the same look by making sure I got similar refraction from plain pearl. I would do this by turning each blank round whilst looking at it from the angles of one or two famous pics. Doesn't take that much effort to fake, at least to the same level as the wood grain, which is inconclusive without better pics.


Seriously though, if this turns out not to be real I will stick you a beer hamper in the post

ICBM

WezV said:

Also, the Hendrix v identified by a pearl dot was late 90's. I remember the guy who discovered it struggled to sell the guitar because no one was convinced back then and it all became an exciting could be story. It sold for a lot a few years later.

This conversion and reneck would pre-date such things

Good point… if the back story is true, though. If the guitar is fake, everything about it might be.

WezV

WezV;856177" said:

Seriously though, if this turns out not to be real I will stick you a beer hamper in the post

Or a plank of old Honduran if you prefer.


Wouldn't stake anything serious on it, but worth a little bet??

ICBM

A pint either way is plenty . I don't normally bet on anything, and I certainly don't think it's worth any more!

WezV

Beer is cheap for me, and apparently so is good old stock mahogany at the moment

ICBM

WezV said:

...and apparently so is good old stock mahogany at the moment

The sort you would need for making a fake 50s Les Paul?

WezV

Nah, still haven't got anything the right size for that.... But I could fake a Norlin pancake with the stock I have.

Unfortunately the thick stuff I have is only 4" wide

Nerine

It's definitely the same guitar as the garden pictures on the stand.

It's whether that guitar is actually Bolans.

In some pictures I think it is. In some others I'm not so sure.

It must have had four or five necks on it.

impmann

It doesn't explain the pic of the guitar with screws in the neck joint...

I have to be honest, much as I'd love it to be the Bolan guitar, I don't think it is either. If it came from Rockbottom, then those Scallywags could have done anything to it - and if it came from around the time of Alan Pyne's death, it's more likely to be one of the 50s Les Paul's they bought from his widow for a 'bargain' price. Least said the better, there.

That famous pic of him in the field shows how flat the top is, much like a proper 52 that has been 'standardised' looks. The lemon burst '50s' guitar has a more traditional carve.

There are also some things that don't add up... The bare wood in the neck joint looks very 'fresh'. Plus re-necking a Les Paul isn't something most folks can do in their shed, so *somebody* must have done the work - and within living memory - so who? And what did they remove.

Finally, I do recall a "1950s" Les Paul
project guitar on eBay a while back that had a destroyed neck that we all debated the merits of. Could it be the same pieces of wood that have been carefully painted, sanded and then married to another neck to create a monster? I dunno, but with the money at stake people have done more for less...

koss59

Somewhere in that thread someone put up an interview with Bolan where he mentions he has a £35 eastern les Paul copy, I'm thinking that's the bolt on neck one pictured.

Nerine

Yeah, the bolt on is probably some kind of Aria. That part isn't a mystery.

brownovich

The thing that makes me laugh is those declaring with 100% certainty that it's definately Bolans guitar! That's a ridiculous thing to do given the pictures posted. The OP doesn't ever post any better pictures inspite of this clearly being potentially a big deal. I wonder why? Either something fishy or he's nervous about people finding out that it is the real deal. I'd imagine that someone's already sent this to Bolans heirs.

I'm not saying it's not but you cannot definitively say it is either from those pictures.

Jookyjr

If it is the Bolan one, I hope he has a good lawyer and a lot of money

koneguitarist

Best I don't mention my old 50's Les Paul with a custom neck on it then ? http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i278/bargoedboy/mytelejazzandLP.jpg