Any Motörbike riders here?

TheBigDipper

Devil#20 said:

How do you know when it's time to change your bike helmet? I have an AGV that's about 10 years old and an HJC which is about 7 years old. I learned today that you shouldn't keep your gloves in the helmet because petrol fumes and residue on them degrade the lining. Obvious once you've been told I suppose. If you didn't do this though what degrades the helmet to being no longer fit for purpose. The shell can be polycarbonate, fibre glass or carbon fibre or some combination. Is it the amount of UV exposure the helmet gets or is it something else. If it's never been dropped and the padding is still firm is there any reason to change it. A decent Arai is around the £800 mark nowadays. 

You can buy replacement linings from the big manufacturers. You can usually wash them, too, and they'll fluff up a bit and fit a little better for a while. 

When I was running my training school I used to pass on the received wisdom about helmet replacement because that's something the DVSA required approved instructors to do. I did it in good faith but actually have no idea how factually accurate it is. I don't ride every day now. I change when I think the lining has stopped fitting properly even after washing and maybe the strap is a little worn and there's more risk of it snapping or detaching from the helmet in a crash, or the fastening slipping (I prefer D rings) under stress. I believe it's the polystyrene that degrades over time and use (dries out, loses elasticity and therefore shock absorption capability) rather than the shell, but again, just passing it on in good faith. It contradicts the article that Haych found and I've no idea which is correct.

If you've been using both those helmets I'd buy a new one. I've never owned a helmet longer than 5 years. I replaced school helmets every 2 years (inexpensive poly) or if they were dropped. They were rarely dropped, though, as we taught people to put their gloves on the ground, then their helmet on the gloves - not balanced on the seat or over the mirror. 

FWIW, if a polycarbonate helmet fits you and you like it, there's no safety advantage to a road rider in buying another material. Sure, comfort, wind noise, looks, etc., may be different, but not road-related safety. There used to be two standards in the USA - Snell and Dot. Maybe there still is... Snell was required for racing and perceived to be the best. Dot was good enough for the road. In fact, tests showed that Dot was better for the road because a Snell helmet was designed for racing crashes and Dot helmets were better suited to the relatively low speed crashes road riders suffered. Less stiff and better for shock absorption. 

Dominic

Yes ,I think you are absolutely right and the superadventure bikes are very comfortable although not especially manageable .
Some are very tall to the saddle ......great if you happen to be 6'4 but I do see people struggle ,especially when manoevering in a car park or at a kerbside camber especially as they are very bulky.
I saw a guy topple off a GS a few weeks ago .......when we got the bike up and he remounted I could see he was on the very tips of his toes .....he was about 5 10".....certainly not shorter
I had a weekend Green Lane riding about 10 years ago on a 400cc Enduro type bike .......all set up with hybrid tyres etc.It was great fun and I'm experienced but it wasn't especially easy and I certainly didn't get anywhere near the limitations of 400cc power........I came off once and had loads of very close calls........I'm sure I would have gone a lot slower on a big GS type and found it much more difficult even tho' I had a motocross bike as a youngster 

Haych

TheBigDipper said:

I believe it's the polystyrene that degrades over time and use (dries out, loses elasticity and therefore shock absorption capability) rather than the shell, but again, just passing it on in good faith. It contradicts the article that Haych found and I've no idea which is correct.

This is also what I've heard - the EPS layers lose the solvents or oils or whatever that keep them flexible and they degrade and cannot absorb impacts as well.  UV radiation also affects the integrity of the shell, or that's what I've read, with poly and thermoplastic not standing up as well as the more expensive carbon/fibre-glass/composite shells.

However, if that recommendation comes from the weakest link type scenario then there must be cases where perfectly good helmets are being routinely thrown away for no good reason well before they need to be.  

If you're using your lid every day in all weathers and all temperatures, putting on and taking off several times a day and using as an impromptu shopping basket at Tesco Express then sure, I can probably see the need to chuck it away after five years.

But, a weekend warrior who looks after their lid and uses it only a few days a week and for the odd tour in the summer, then is it really going to be knackered after five years?

I don't know, I'm just posing what I see as an honest question.

AK99

Best argument for a new one is perhaps the improvements in materials and design between now and half a decade ago - but even that has to be in the margins surely.

With all the things that can get you dead on a bike, the difference between a 3 year old and a 6 year old helmet can't be much in the greater scheme of things ?

p90fool

My everyday lid is only about three years old but illegal in this country, but I have some others dating back to the fifties. 

They all keep my ears warm and stop me getting a ticket, so the idea of spending 800 quid on a plastic hat is not one from the planet I inhabit tbh.  

Dominic

The Helmet I wear on a cruiser is an open face American DOT helmet .Arguable apparently whether legal or not somebody told me that the wording says something like equivalent to the certified BS ...which isn't the same as having to carry the actual BS mark .....I've never been questioned about it or stopped in 20 years .

LastMantra

My dad got his helmet from aldi.

He's an open face with goggles guy. 

Haych

A couple of videos on the topic here, some healthy cynicism on the 5 year rule included.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYfgD12JXtg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nbQsnUvlo4

AK99

Interesting vidyo - but I can't get past the two dudes standing up straight-legged on the pegs the whole time

If it's smooth enough to do that - SIT ffs. If it's not - bend your knees to ride the bumps or you'll (a) wreck your knee-joints and (b) get fkt up off the bike into the ether or (c) both.  Jeez Louise..

TheBigDipper

Dominic said:

The Helmet I wear on a cruiser is an open face American DOT helmet .Arguable apparently whether legal or not somebody told me that the wording says something like equivalent to the certified BS ...which isn't the same as having to carry the actual BS mark .....I've never been questioned about it or stopped in 20 years .

I think we're way past the era where there were enough traffic police interested in this sort of thing to actually want to do anything about it. And that's got to be good, because there are more important things in life than enforcing "you must wear a helmet" laws, and they're inconsistent (IMHO) because of the exception permitted to male Sikhs. I'd repeal that law and let individuals decide - just like bicycle helmets. (But I'd wear one myself). 

Any helmet made to pass the safety standards in a first world country that actually requires a standard is good enough for me - BSI/EU mark or not.

I'm still suspicious about some aftermarket visors, though. I used to read about poorly made visors that couldn't pass the safety tests. So they couldn't be sold in the UK. Of course, that didn't stop people buying them online and the order being shipped from another country. This (for me) was an issue for things like iridium visors and heavily-tinted visors. because the level of tint is already illegal for the UK. In that instance, then there is no point in submitting them for UK safety tests as they'd still not be permitted. So there's no incentive to make them properly, either. 

sinbaadi

I think making helmet wearing optional would be bad.  I don't know any stats for the UK but even from just a purely economic perspective they save the US taxpayer billions of dollars per year.

TheBigDipper

sinbaadi said:

I think making helmet wearing optional would be bad.  I don't know any stats for the UK but even from just a purely economic perspective they save the US taxpayer billions of dollars per year.

Where did you get your US stats from, then? Link? Not challenging you, just interested in the numbers. 

sinbaadi

It was a US highways case study, I remember reading it a long time ago and there are probably newer ones
https://one.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/pedbimot/motorcycle/safebike/costs.html

Dominic

I think helmets should be a personal choice as a matter of principle but I would always choose to wear one.
My brother came off without a helmet whilst away on holiday....it was a low speed scooter accident but he got a fractured skull and was slightly brain- damaged after fitting from the concussion.A helemet would have prevented that.
The whole argument about whether a £800 helmet is going to save you better than a £250 one is a bit ridiculous .......if the impact is severe enough to put that to the test the most likely cause of death would be a ruptured Aorta or broken neck and no helmet is going to prevent that.
One of the big helmet cost issues is weight and design ........good cooling air flow and a light shell are much more comfortable .
Peripheral vision is also a big issue for me when using a full-face.

Haych

Personally, I think mandatory helmets are a good thing, same as with seat belts.  If it wasn't mandatory to wear helmets and seat belts I honestly think the burden on the health system would be much greater, there would be more deaths, more people needing intensive hospital treatment and more people needing permanent care, so I'm all for it.

I'd never spend £800 on a helmet, my limit is £500 and that's up there.  I've just purchased an Arai Quantic to replace the RPHA 70 that bounced off the tarmac in Belgium and it's worth the money just for the fit, it's the best fitting and most comfortable helmet I've ever tried on, but it's still firm around my noggin and face.  But it's not without its flaws.

I know a guy who has a nice collection of helmets and every time he goes out he chooses a different helmet from the last one he wore.

Dominic

I've got an LS2 for £120 and that's extremely comfortable

Devil#20

Some good points here and in the videos and links. I've decided to err on the side of caution and bin the AGV. I'm not an everyday rider so more weekend warrior and short journey user. The AGV gets less use so even at 10yo it looks pretty new and the cheek pads are still quite resilient. But it is 10yo so reading all the above it's going. I might dissect it first in the interest of science or maybe throw it out the upstairs window. My HJC RPHA is coming up 7 yo now so I'm keeping that for now and use it for short journeys pootling down to the shops 'n' that (There may be another associated post on this topic soon btw). 

The law on helmets and helmet standards is a strange one really. As @TheBigDipper points out Sikh's are OK to ride bikes wearing a turban (which will give next to no protection compared to even a cheap bike helmet. I don't think laws should make exception for religious beliefs because we've seen cases where that isn't applied consistently. There should be no ambiguity or exceptions in law anyway. Anyway, that's another argument.

@Haych I'm looking at Arai as a replacement and it's north of £800. I'll have a look at the one you've got because I'm not convinced an £800+ helmet built to the same standard is any safer than a cheaper one of the same standard. Where's the best place to buy a new helmet nowadays. I've always used SportsBikeShops in the past. 

Dominic

I think SportsBike Shops is probably best.......helpful in store too

Kittyfrisk

Actor Treat Williams killed after his bike was hit by an SUV (not many details yet, but sounds like the SUV turned across him causing a classic T-bone crash).
Yet it is a Motorcycle accident? Sounds like victim blaming to me.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65886521
Be safe out there...

Haych

Devil#20 said:

@Haych I'm looking at Arai as a replacement and it's north of £800. I'll have a look at the one you've got because I'm not convinced an £800+ helmet built to the same standard is any safer than a cheaper one of the same standard. Where's the best place to buy a new helmet nowadays. I've always used SportsBikeShops in the past. 

I got mine from SportsBikeShop too, I've had a couple of helmets from there now.  I don't live too far away from their Bristol branch so it's not an arduous task to nip in and try a few on before committing to buy one.

The first time I tried on the Quantic was in Fowlers, though, during the middle of the pandemic.  It immediately impressed me with how comfy and well fitting it was, but I couldn't afford it at the time (or justify it to be fair).  

I have quite a small head and usually I'm on the border between small and medium in most manufacturers sizing systems so it can be a bit of a gamble which size will fit best.  Small is usually too tight and uncomfortable but "fits" in terms of how a helmet should fit for safety.  A medium feels much more comfortable to wear but will then not "fit" as a helmet should for safety.

The Arai in size small (56cm) just worked perfectly in every respect, it's firm and well fitted with no gaps anywhere but doesn't feel overly tight or cause my face to ache (like the HJC) and has no uncomfortable pressure points (like AGV in the same size would).

So on that basis it's a great lid, I can think of nothing worse or unsafe than a poorly fitting or painfully uncomfortable helmet.

But, get one from any good retailer, just try them on for fit if you can first.