EU referendum ..... just why?????

TheBlueWolf

Sporky;1084252" said:

But if we leave the EU, Godzilla will get us.

In the absence of any sensible ideas from either side regarding which way to vote I shall now vote 'out' simply because I like Godzilla and want to take a selfie with him.

seany65

It seems that Cameron has said that if we leave the EU, it will mean 2 more years of 'Austerity'.

HUH? I don't remember being told when the 'Austerity' we're having now will stop.

I'll bet every single penny I've ever had, or will ever have, that if we stay in, we'll have an 'Austerity' programme in place for all the time the tories stay in power.

Ro_S

Why a referendum?

Because we, the people, never agreed to give away any of the sovereignty of our nation state to the EU.  That is a matter for a state's citizens to decide upon, not a government.

The question should be, why haven't we had a referendum earlier?!    We never agreed to join the EU.  The last vote, in the 1970s, was merely about joining a free trade community.

RandallFlagg

If we vote stay I fear that this will give EU leaders more power to place more demands on UKs membership and we will be used to support this failing EU project even more. I look through the smoke and mirrors scare mongering and will be voting leave. Everyone I have spoken to in my town is voting leave, but, I don't speak to many people so it's hardly representative.

chillidoggy

I'm very concerned about the low-powered kettle edict that the EU is waiting to foist on us as soon as we vote to stay in.

Brize

For those of you who don't agree with referenda, consider that 40 to 50 per cent of the electorate would like to leave Europe and yet all three main political parties have 'remain' as their official position. This in itself is a failure of representative democracy and why the need for a referendum has come about.

ICBM

Brize said:

For those of you who don't agree with referenda, consider that 40 to 50 per cent of the electorate would like to leave Europe and yet all three main political parties have 'remain' as their official position. This in itself is a failure of representative democracy and why the need for a referendum has come about.

I'm pretty sure there is a popular majority for the return of the death penalty and it would pass in a referendum. But it would never get through parliament even if it was up for discussion. Is that a good thing or a bad thing for representative democracy?

For what it's worth I do support the EU referendum even though I want to stay in. It had become a constantly divisive issue which is actively harming the country, and it needs putting to rest one way or the other.

Sporky

Fretwired said:

Freedom and Democracy Party (I'm sure there are better names)

I like it. It's one of those names that suggests the party actually stands for the exact opposite!

crunchman said:

Simple maths tells us the Greece (and probably the rest of Southern Europe) will go bankrupt and drag the Euro area down.  

Simple maths doesn't really apply to the soothsaying retcon fest that is economics.

Brize said:

For those of you who don't agree with referenda, consider that 40 to 50 per cent of the electorate would like to leave Europe and yet all three main political parties have 'remain' as their official position. This in itself is a failure of representative democracy and why the need for a referendum has come about.

So 50-60% of the electorate support staying, the main parties support that, and that's not representative?

You can't withdraw 40% of the country.

Philly_Q

ICBM said:

For what it's worth I do support the EU referendum even though I want to stay in. It had become a constantly divisive issue which is actively harming the country, and it needs putting to rest one way or the other.

Will it put anything to rest, though?  I suspect it will be much like the Scottish referendum - close result (probably closer than Scotland) and the losers, whichever way it goes, will be agitating for another referendum before the dust has even settled.

It could end up as even more of a divisive, time-wasting issue than it was already.

Brize

ICBM said:

Brize said:

For those of you who don't agree with referenda, consider that 40 to 50 per cent of the electorate would like to leave Europe and yet all three main political parties have 'remain' as their official position. This in itself is a failure of representative democracy and why the need for a referendum has come about.

I'm pretty sure there is a popular majority for the return of the death penalty and it would pass in a referendum. But it would never get through parliament even if it was up for discussion.

That's an unbelievably poor argument - polls have consistently shown little to no support for the reinstatement of the death penalty.

ICBM

Brize said:

That's an unbelievably poor argument - polls have consistently shown little to no support for the reinstatement of the death penalty.

I thought the opposite? Especially if conducted after some form of high-profile terrorist/child-murder incident.

Philly_Q said:

Will it put anything to rest, though?  I suspect it will be much like the Scottish referendum - close result (probably closer than Scotland) and the losers, whichever way it goes, will be agitating for another referendum before the dust has even settled.

I don't think the Scots will support another referendum unless something very substantial changes - although the UK leaving the EU would certainly be substantial enough. Without that, there's very little enthusiasm for another one except among die-hard nationalists, and if anything the idea may have harmed the SNP's prospects recently.

I agree that the danger is a narrow result - and especially if Scotland and England vote in opposite ways, by little enough that the Scottish result matters. That could spell a lot of trouble.

Drew_TNBD

The desire for the death penalty after a traumatic event is nothing unique to the UK.

JezWynd

If I was paranoid I'd be thinking that Cameron and Johnson had cooked up a secret pact for Boris to stuff the Brexit campaign with his abysmal politicking for an out vote.

Chalky

Philly_Q;1086285" said:

ICBM said:For what it's worth I do support the EU referendum even though I want to stay in. It had become a constantly divisive issue which is actively harming the country, and it needs putting to rest one way or the other.





Will it put anything to rest, though?  I suspect it will be much like the Scottish referendum - close result (probably closer than Scotland) and the losers, whichever way it goes, will be agitating for another referendum before the dust has even settled.

It could end up as even more of a divisive, time-wasting issue than it was already.

Voting to stay in won't put anything to rest - the wheel is coming off the EU money wagon whether we stay or go. I'd rather be standing away from it when it does, not sitting on it as part of the carnage.

Fretwired

Two thirds of voters think we will remain. Net immigration has risen to 333,000 - that's a large city and the ONS estimates for the increase in population are alarming as most are settling in the southern half of England. I don't care what anyone says it's just unsustainable. The ONS has an interactive map showing estimated increases by towns and cities and counties. Lots of house building near me but no new major roads, we have a two lane motorway that can't cope, overcrowded trains, no major hospital and not enough school places. Migration is fine but the government needs to back it up with infrastructure that means building on the Green Belt. We need some new major cities.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/26/eu-referendum-lord-ashcroft-poll-finds-nearly-two-thirds-of-vote/

Ro_S

To those people who don't know how to vote on this matter or are indecisive about it, I would implore you not to employ your vote.

Phil_aka_Pip

Ro_S said:

To those people who don't know how to vote on this matter or are indecisive about it, I would implore you not to employ your vote.

Nah. Take my advice and vote OUT

Fretwired

Phil_aka_Pip said:

Ro_S said:

To those people who don't know how to vote on this matter or are indecisive about it, I would implore you not to employ your vote.

Nah. Take my advice and vote OUT

I watched a programme with Portillo on the EU - not particularly good other than when he spoke to some students in the UK they were pro as the EU paid their fees. So the UK tax payer pays into the EU and the EU 'bribes' our own people with our money.

What's more scary is his discussion with young people in Europe who want a superstate and no national governments. I mean what could go wrong?

Phil_aka_Pip

Fretwired said:

Phil_aka_Pip said:

Ro_S said:

To those people who don't know how to vote on this matter or are indecisive about it, I would implore you not to employ your vote.

Nah. Take my advice and vote OUT

I watched a programme with Portillo on the EU - not particularly good other than when he spoke to some students in the UK they were pro as the EU paid their fees. So the UK tax payer pays into the EU and the EU 'bribes' our own people with our money.

What's more scary is his discussion with young people in Europe who want a superstate and no national governments. I mean what could go wrong?

I don't think any of our lives are going to be long enough to list all the details.

english_bob

Ro_S said:

To those people who don't know how to vote on this matter or are indecisive about it, I would implore you not to employ your vote.

Or you could implore those people to find out about the issues, make a decision and vote on it. That would be more democratic and less patronising, wouldn't it?