EU Referendum Vote - Poll

ICBM

koneguitarist said:

Still voting out for following reasons only.

I want someone that was elected by a majority in UK for to be in charge of the country.

In that case you need electoral reform first, since our governments are almost never elected by a majority.

Bidley said:

Which box do I cross tomorrow to make all that happen?

Rhetorical question...

Remain.

Although it has no direct bearing, just look at the type of politicians who support leaving, and ask yourself whether allowing them to take over - as they will, if we vote leave - is more likely to result in electoral reform, or less.

ToneControl

eartfeltdawn said:

ToneControl said:

you're ignoring the effect of us effectively asset-stripping poor countries of all their most skilled professionals

Is it ethical to take all the doctors from small countries around the world. Yes, they can make more money here, but back there is one less doctor, even though their state paid to train them

Do we take all the doctors? I'd like to see some stats on doctor nationalities. Would you want doctors to be restricted from practising overseas and, if so, would you be happy with that restraint in trade?

I've listened to documentaries on Radio 4 about the number of doctors left behind in 3rd world countries because we steal them all.

to save you the trouble, googling "ethical issue with importing doctors"

first hit is:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2094021/

"Most health systems employ foreign-educated health professionals. Such professionals make up more than one-quarter of the medical and nursing workforces of Australia, Canada, the United Kingdom, and the United States; even developing countries rely heavily on foreign physicians.1–3 Because the density of human resources for health is highly related, on average, to variation in maternal mortality, infant mortality, and mortality of children younger than 5 years,4 expatriation of foreign-trained health workers raises major ethical issues for countries already well-endowed with physicians."

"CONCLUSION The United States disproportionately uses graduates of foreign medical schools from the poorest and most deprived countries to maintain its primary care physician supply. The ethical aspects of depending on foreign medical graduates is an important issue, especially when it deprives disadvantaged countries of their graduates to buttress a declining US primary care physician supply."

what do I want?

I'd like people to realise that stealing all the brightest and best from poor countries is unethical

we should actively pay to train more doctors and medical staff in the countries we damage the most

The same principle applies to all professions though - if all the best IT, engineering, etc guys migrate, the host country is left denuded. Look over the last 100 years at what Irish diaspora  around the world have achieved, compared to what those in Ireland

ToneControl

ICBM said:

koneguitarist said:

Still voting out for following reasons only.

I want someone that was elected by a majority in UK for to be in charge of the country.

In that case you need electoral reform first, since our governments are almost never elected by a majority.

Bidley said:

Which box do I cross tomorrow to make all that happen?

Rhetorical question...

Remain.

Although it has no direct bearing, just look at the type of politicians who support leaving, and ask yourself whether allowing them to take over - as they will, if we vote leave - is more likely to result in electoral reform, or less.

Trouble is with PR - you get some weird parties into parliament, UKIP would have 13% of the MPs - more than 80 MPs

Single transferable vote looks better to me

quarky

Cirrus said:

 If you're voting leave because of a fear of immigration, then you're voting not to make your life better, but to make someone else's life worse. Someone that you've never heard of or met, someone that you have no responsibility towards other than that they're a human being too and they live on the same planet as you.

 If you don't want immigrants coming here from poorer countries, then implicitly you want them to stay in worse places with lower standards of living. You want some of them to live in poverty, to be stuck in war zones. I'm voting tomorrow and immigration is one of the main reasons. 

Very noble. Also very fairyland with lots of pink unicorns.

No country in the world has completely open borders with freedom of movement. Maybe because it is pure fucking Marxist fantasy. Unfortunately, we live in a world where practicalities matter, and letting anyone in a bizarre idea. Those that can, will leave the UK taking their money with them. The wealth that is left, will be so diluted that it would make very little practical difference the to the very poor in the world while destroying the lives of those that currently live here.

No thanks. We have seen the damage that leftish policies did during the last century, lets, not let the fundamentalist left screw up this one too shall we?

UnclePsychosis

"the fundamentalist left" - headed up by Gideon Osborne and David Cameron :-D

strumjoughlamps

Barry and Paul are at it again

quarky

UnclePsychosis said:

"the fundamentalist left" - headed up by Gideon Osborne and David Cameron :-D

I don't think they are calling for open borders are they?

For the remain voters, knowing what you know now about the EU, if we were out, would you honestly vote to join?

Emp_Fab

Oh bugger. I've just seen a clip from the late Tony Benn, the only politician I've ever respected. I'm back to undecided again, leaning towards leave.

ICBM

Emp_Fab said:

Oh bugger. I've just seen a clip from the late Tony Benn, the only politician I've ever respected. I'm back to undecided again, leaning towards leave.

Sadly he's not around to ask now, but you could always see which way his son and his political heir Jeremy Corbyn would recommend voting.

ToneControl

ICBM said:

Emp_Fab said:

Oh bugger. I've just seen a clip from the late Tony Benn, the only politician I've ever respected. I'm back to undecided again, leaning towards leave.

Sadly he's not around to ask now, but you could always see which way his son and his political heir Jeremy Corbyn would recommend voting.

how would you determine that?

by his headline claims, or by the way he undermines the remain campaign?

;-)

tbh, 

Corbyn is thick as shit compared to Tony Benn, I wouldn't ever compare them

Fortheloveofguitar

Corbyn's the biggest sell out in politics

Fretwired

Look on the bright side .. this time tomorrow we'll be back to complaining about the rain and watching the footie and rugby.

Axe_meister

Well I have voted. IN

Whilst the EU does need reform, I believe

a) We are better of being IN and be part of the discussion

b) I don't want to vote in a recession. 

c) Our Exit could trigger a domino effect across the EU, causing recession across the EU, which regardless of trade agreements will hit us (double Whammy)

d) Despite high immigration our un-employment figures are coming down, and they are contributing to our economy. It is our incompetent lot (current and past governments) who have caused lack of infrastructure problems (schools/Hospitals/Housing/roads)

Questions why aren't our own people taking these jobs?

e) I believe an exit will move the current government to the right, the opposition to the left. I prefer a more centrist government.

f) I don't believe the people as a whole are making a true informed decision (how many of the general electorate have actually read any EU treaty documents). This has been a campaign of fear and sound bites on both sides.

g) the general cost to the economy (IT system changes/New signage, etc, etc)

h) I consider myself European.

i) This whole debate has brought out the worst in people, with the real EU issues actually being sidelined, the whole thing being more a protest vote. I actually think the labour party has taken advantage of the Blue-on-Blue fight, which is why they have kept very very quiet.

j) A comment I heard when walking our dog (a Beagle and a dachshund) Quote:" Oooh a Beagle, you don't see many british breeds around anymore. That is why I'm voting out so we get more British dogs breeds back". This summed it all up to me.

Fretwired

Well this is interesting .....

German business leaders handed a considerable boost to the Leave campaign by saying it would be “very, very foolish” to deny the UK a free trade deal after Brexit.

Markus Kerber, the head of the BDI, which represents German industry, said that 1970s-style trade barriers would result in job losses in Germany.

“Imposing trade barriers, imposing protectionist measures between our two countries – or between the two political centres, the European Union on the one hand and the UK on the other – would be a very, very foolish thing in the 21st century.”

joeyowen

Fretwired said:

Well this is interesting .....

German business leaders handed a considerable boost to the Leave campaign by saying it would be “very, very foolish” to deny the UK a free trade deal after Brexit.

Markus Kerber, the head of the BDI, which represents German industry, said that 1970s-style trade barriers would result in job losses in Germany.

“Imposing trade barriers, imposing protectionist measures between our two countries – or between the two political centres, the European Union on the one hand and the UK on the other – would be a very, very foolish thing in the 21st century.”

Not sure on the context, but it seems that have left it until very late to say that

Fretwired

Just voted ... big queues so this is a popular vote. Normally my polling station has tumble weed blowing through it.

Sporky

ToneControl said:

Trouble is with PR - you get some weird parties into parliament, UKIP would have 13% of the MPs - more than 80 MPs

There is the question of whether people would still vote (or would still vote in the same numbers) for fringe parties under some sort of alternative to FPTP.

Also the question of whether UKIP ought to have more MPs; the aim, after all, is for Parliament to represent the views of the country.

Fortheloveofguitar

Fretwired;1121962" said:

Just voted ... big queues so this is a popular vote. Normally my polling station has tumble weed blowing through it.

Mine was rammed too. Carpark was full

Ro_S

vote leave !!!

Sporky

I had a postal vote. Saves queuing up with the proles.