The best info I've seen on the referendum thus far

axisus

Well, the two sides of the argument have been pretty useless at giving out information of any use, but I found this 'American' web page to give a fairly decent rough summary

http://www.vox.com/2016/6/17/11963668/brexit-uk-eu-explained

Nitefly

Thanks for that @axisus - it made a lot of sense without getting all emotional, and it didn't take sides.

Paul_C

Chalky

Didn't take sides? It tried to be balanced but the following was given as an "unpredictable" consequence under the 'why should Americans care' section 9.

"For example, a vote to leave could discredit Prime Minister David Cameron and bring more populist conservatives to power. Then, if the results of British exit are as bad as critics predict, that could discredit the British right and bring the Labour Party’s far-left leader Jeremy Corbyn to power in the next election."

And that's it! All Americans need to know is "far-left"! You don't get much more biased than such a 'Reds Under The Bed' statement )

Nitefly

But Corbyn IS far-left.

Emp_Fab

Interesting.  Thanks for posting that.  It's the only article I've read that appears genuinely impartial.  ...and that's what's really fucked me off with this campaign.  Everywhere you look, you are being fed agendas dressed up as impartiality.  I've read so many articles on the referendum and time after time you get halfway down and it dawns on you that it's just another load of propaganda where the author is pushing their own agenda.  It's got to the point where I don't know where to get any sensible information on it.

I'm seriously considering not voting at all because I honestly don't think I have enough truthful information to be able to make a reasoned decision.  I can't believe anything that's come out of either camp !  If you were to press me on it, I'd say I'm in favour of a Brexit, not for any reasoned decision but for the patronising scare tactics the Tory Govt have employed, and I'm no fan of the Conservative Party.  However, that's not a sensible justification to vote leave.

The other thing that's pissing me off is the choice appears to be between leave and stay half-in and half-out as we are currently, out of the common currency and Schengen.  Surely, we should be choosing between fully out and fully in.

Sporky

Emp_Fab said:

The other thing that's pissing me off is the choice appears to be between leave and stay half-in and half-out as we are currently, out of the common currency and Schengen.  Surely, we should be choosing between fully out and fully in.

Except that leave seems to include everything nice about the EU, even that isn't fully out.

dtr

This guy isn't impartial (he's pro-remain) but he seems to at least seem to keep things quite factual about his area of expertise.

littlegreenman

dtr said:

This guy isn't impartial (he's pro-remain) but he seems to at least seem to keep things quite factual about his area of expertise.

I posted that in the other thread. Seems to know his stuff, and doesn't spin it with much in the way of fear either way.

On the other hand

Heartfeltdawn

The real voice of the referendum. And Joey Essex. 

Clarky

interesting article..

it contains a lot of reasons why I think the UK should leave, and also why I think the UK should remain..

I'm still undecided.. and it's doing my fkn head in

ICBM

Nitefly said:

But Corbyn IS far-left.

That statement is an illustration of just how far British politics has moved to the right in the last thirty-five years.

Corbyn is actually moderate left by traditional standards.

UnclePsychosis

ICBM;1118991" said:

Nitefly said:

But Corbyn IS far-left.





That statement is an illustration of just how far British politics has moved to the right in the last thirty-five years.

Corbyn is actually moderate left by traditional standards.

Anyone who appoints John McDonnell as shadow chancellor is stretching the definition of "moderate"!

Philly_Q

ICBM said:

Nitefly said:

But Corbyn IS far-left.

That statement is an illustration of just how far British politics has moved to the right in the last thirty-five years.

Corbyn is actually moderate left by traditional standards.

Surely there's equal room for debate as to whether Nigel Farage and UKIP are really "far-right", as also claimed in that article.

But anyway... an interesting read as a summary, but it doesn't go into much depth on any of the issues, I don't feel like I learned anything.

I just want it all over and done with, so we as a country can get back to.... arguing about Europe and immigration.

Nitefly

ICBM said:

Nitefly said:

But Corbyn IS far-left.

That statement is an illustration of just how far British politics has moved to the right in the last thirty-five years.

Corbyn is actually moderate left by traditional standards.

Yes, I should have said, "far-left by modern standards", although I see the ghosts of Frank Chapple, Len Murray, and Red Robbo looming over his shoulder...

*edit* turns out Red Robbo isn't a ghost yet... 

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Clarky

Philly_Q said:

ICBM said:

Nitefly said:

But Corbyn IS far-left.

That statement is an illustration of just how far British politics has moved to the right in the last thirty-five years.

Corbyn is actually moderate left by traditional standards.

Surely there's equal room for debate as to whether Nigel Farage and UKIP are really "far-right", as also claimed in that article.

But anyway... an interesting read as a summary, but it doesn't go into much depth on any of the issues, I don't feel like I learned anything.

I just want it all over and done with, so we as a country can get back to.... arguing about Europe and immigration.

I didn't think UKIP were far right..

they just seemed to me to be a bunch of people from all across the spectrum that had one thing in common.. 

just wanting to be out of the EU

and Farage seems to me to be a sort of Tory type

edit: I'm not a UKIP supporter myself, but one thing seemed irritating to me, and that was how some folk tarred UKIP with the racist brush just because they wanted to sort out immigration. I thought their message was pretty clear.. just wanting to keep some sort of handle on the size of the UK population and being selective about the skill sets of those allowed entry..

a guy on tv this evening said something interesting… I only caught a bit of it so I didn't quite catch his stance..

I think he owned a building firm…  he mentioned about Polish builders that don't need training and how it side steps having to have apprenticeships.. kinda struck a nerve with me.. how can our youth develop a trade whilst having to compete with already skilled guys willing to work for low pay.. where is the incentive for an employer to 'bring on the youth team'

holnrew

Yeah, not racist at all...

Philly_Q

^ I didn't make the comment to defend or stand up for UKIP, I'm not a UKIP supporter or even a Leave supporter.

I was just pointing out, with reference to the article which started this thread, that describing Farage as "far-right" is no more accurate than describing Corbyn as "far-left".

Bogwhoppit

Emp_Fab said:

 Surely, we should be choosing between fully out and fully in.

Or 'Out Out', and 'In In'

Being just In or Out is not quite the full ticket

axisus

holnrew said:

Yeah, not racist at all...

I'm no UKIP fan, but I'm not sure how that is racist? They want control of immigration. That is just a poor way of going about it.

RACIST:a person who believes in racism, the doctrine that one's own racial group is superior or that a particular racial group is inferior to the others.

EricTheWeary

axisus;1119226" said:

holnrew said:



Yeah, not racist at all...





I'm no UKIP fan, but I'm not sure how that is racist? They want control of immigration. That is just a poor way of going about it.

RACIST:a person who believes in racism, the doctrine that one's own racial group is superior or that a particular racial group is inferior to the others.

The message, from a white man, is stop these people coming in and the picture is of almost entirely black people. I think that is open to interpretation as racist.