Can we set up a vote of no confidence in the FA?

axisus

As a football fan, I am constantly dismayed by the fact that our team, despite having some decent players, always fail miserably at tournaments. There are many factors, but having the wrong manager is a key one. Hodgson seemed like the wrong appointment before a ball was kicked. This was proved right in Brazil, but we kept him on inexplicably. Euro 2016 proved that he was clueless with squad selection, team selection, mad loyalty to players that were not up to it at this point, inability to pick best team, didn't know best formation etc etc.

The FA have in my mind been pretty useless over the years. I was pissed off when so much money was wasted on the National stadium (agreed fixed price £458m - real total cost £975m - cost of superb Welsh millennium stadium - just £121m). That aside we have had some very poor managerial choices.

In my time:

Good managers:

Robson

Venables (they got rid of him)

Hoddle (they got rid of him)

Bad managers:

Taylor

Wilkinson

Keegan

Taylor

Erikson

McClaren

Capello

Hodgson

Lets have new people in, get some new ideas going, and find a decent manager who can motivate the prima donnas.

lloyd

I'd go along with that, people talk about hindsight being 20/20 but with a lot of Woy' and previous bad managers everyone knows what they're doing is the wrong thing.

The Sterling inclusion in the starting line-ups and Wilshire going on the plane.

Even if they'd have beaten Icland, Wilshire had no right to travel with the squad.

The FA are dinosaurs and don't like controversy, it goes back to Clough not getting the job, despite being the best man for the job.

Why Redknapp wasn't given the chance when pretty much the whole country wanted him I don't know.

I don't think I know any England fan that was happy with Hodgson's appointment yet he got the job.

In fairness to the FA they had no choice with getting rid of Hoddle and Venables, their hands were tied.

rlw

Sorry.  You mean there was confidence in the FA?

crunchman

Can't class Hoddle as good.

He went to France '98 with only one left footed player in the entire squad (Le Saux) and when he got injured there was no balance to the team.

His book was also a major problem.  He wrote a book while he was still the serving England manager slagging off players who were still potentially involved in the England set up.  How were they supposed to play for a manager like that?  He should have been sacked after the book.

The worry now is that the papers say they want Wenger.

They need to find someone who will play to England's strengths like Eddie Jones has with the rugby.  He's not tried to turn us into Australia with lightweight forwards and running from everywhere.  He's gone back to English strengths and picked a brutal pack and gone for physical dominance.

Wenger's lightweight style does not suit English players.  We'd be better off with someone like Allardyce than Wenger.  I quite like the idea of Slaven Bilic.  He'd suit England a lot more than Wenger.

Fretwired

crunchman said:

Can't class Hoddle as good.

He went to France '98 with only one left footed player in the entire squad (Le Saux) and when he got injured there was no balance to the team.

His book was also a major problem.  He wrote a book while he was still the serving England manager slagging off players who were still potentially involved in the England set up.  How were they supposed to play for a manager like that?  He should have been sacked after the book.

The worry now is that the papers say they want Wenger.

They need to find someone who will play to England's strengths like Eddie Jones has with the rugby.  He's not tried to turn us into Australia with lightweight forwards and running from everywhere.  He's gone back to English strengths and picked a brutal pack and gone for physical dominance.

Wenger's lightweight style does not suit English players.  We'd be better off with someone like Allardyce than Wenger.  I quite like the idea of Slaven Bilic.  He'd suit England a lot more than Wenger.

@crunchman .. good post, especially about Jones. Bilic would be a good choice IMHO.

And Hoddle should never have been manager. People outside the FA at the time thought he should head up player development to improve the basic skills of players.

Snap

Redknapp would have been rubbish, he hasn't actually won much really. Just a good talker.



Was very funny on the radio yesterday though, talking about the FA and that.

CabbageCat

They were all good managers - they wouldn't have got the job if they weren't. Eriksson and Capello had pretty excellent win records. If entitled England fans got off the team's back and let them do their best instead of brutally belittling them when they play like a team terrified of being brutally belittled then we might get somewhere.

England fans (not all, obviously, you know the ones I mean) get the team they deserve and the results they deserve.

UnclePsychosis

Eriksson was not a bad manager. People are being blinded by the fact that he was a bit of a knob, but three quarter finals and losing to better teams was a perfectly reasonable performance given the players England had.

The thought of Glenn "disabled people are just the product of karma" Hoddle taking back over is hilarious.

Bidley

CabbageCat said:

They were all good managers - they wouldn't have got the job if they weren't. Eriksson and Capello had pretty excellent win records. If entitled England fans got off the team's back and let them do their best instead of brutally belittling them when they play like a team terrified of being brutally belittled then we might get somewhere.

England fans (not all, obviously, you know the ones I mean) get the team they deserve and the results they deserve.

Agree with this. We've had every flavour of manager since the likes of Hoddle and Venables, and none of them have done much of note.

Roy's had a good crack, and I rate him as a manager, but it's time for a change. But I can guarantee the next manager won't do any better, nor the next, nor the next...

lloyd

At the top level you need to be good at two things to be a good manager IMO - selection and motivation/respect of the players.

Taking the rugby analogy, as everyone wants to use, while not perfect will fit.

Eddie Jones has basically picked the same teams as Lancaster, one or two tweaks and that's it, he's also obviously well liked and respected by the players.

He's changed the captain and got people playing in the right positions-Robshaw to 6, Owen Farrell to 12-that's basically the only change, but they were bloody good beforehand, they just fell short a few (crucial) times.

England have fallen short due to selection for the last 15 years, which then has the knock on effect of players being played out of position.

Second thing is motivation/respect, we've seen it a few times IMO in the last few years where the players clearly don't look up to managers-Moyes at Utd was a prime example.

The top job at England should be taken by somebody that the players like, or fear or respect, due to their playing or managerial career-who's getting more respect from players-Mourihno or Hodgson?

crunchman

Whoever it is is on a bit a of a hiding to nothing.  If they leave out the big name stars they will get slaughtered by the press, but if they pick them they don't have the deire and the team chemistry, and they also are wrecked at the end of the season.

Snap

I take issue with one thing:

McClaren was NOT a good manager. In fact he is total crap. And a prize tit too. His managerial ability has been exposed everywhere.

Hodgson wasn't that good really. He has experience, yes, but really, he achieved very little in his career of note. Managed lots of small clubs and a couple of small countries. Cocked up on the bigger jobs, particularly the biggest - Liverpool. I can talk of his time at Blackburn specifically, as a fan. At the time we were at our (more or less) best level and he was useless. Tactically on the field, and operationally off the field he was completely inept. He did some really stupid things. The team went backwards a lot under him, and to think we nearly got Sven.

Sven was good, one of our best.

Capello had an almost impeccable record, but at 2010 he seemed to get it all wrong. But, had that goal against Germany been given, it might have been a different tale.

Of all the names being mentioned, my pick would be Arsene Wenger. I doubt he'd be arsed with it though. Second choice, Steve Bruce.

C'mon, lets have some punts - who would you have?

lloyd

My minds drawing a blank but for me Bilic would be good, knows the country and players inside out, full of passion and would have the respect of the players.

Doubt you'd get him away from West Ham right now though.

Who else is out there?

Bidley

Snap said:

He has experience, yes, but really, he achieved very little in his career of note. Managed lots of small clubs and a couple of small countries.

He managed Inter Milan twice.

The reason the FA chose him is because he's very good at getting the best out of underachieving teams. He saved Fulham and West Brom, and did very well in charge of Finland and Switzerland.

As for who I want as next England manager... They could give Southgate the job if they wanted, it'll make no difference. It's a poisoned chalice. England fans will never be satisfied unless we're dominating every team we play and win by at least 6 goals - and even if we do that we're not happy (every time we play San Marino, for example).

Until we stop being a nation that hates our national team, we'll never do anything of note again.

lloyd

Bidley said:

Snap said:

He has experience, yes, but really, he achieved very little in his career of note. Managed lots of small clubs and a couple of small countries.

As for who I want as next England manager... They could give Southgate the job if they wanted, it'll make no difference. It's a poisoned chalice. England fans will never be satisfied unless we're dominating every team we play and win by at least 6 goals - and even if we do that we're not happy (every time we play San Marino, for example).

Until we stop being a nation that hates our national team, we'll never do anything of note again.

There's a lot of truth in this. I think the media and fans have been a bit more reserved this time around-pretty much every other tournament I can remember there's been talk of England possibly winning it.

That kind of talk and optimism is mental for a team like England-they've won 5 competitive knock out games outside of England in their whole history, let that sink in.

At the risk of repeating myself, but England are not and have not been in the top 4 of world (forget the rankings) teams since I've been watching football-say 25 years or so.

If you're not in the top 4 then par is a semi final, with favourable/unfavourable draws and a bit of luck either way then you 'd expect to see a team placed about 4th/5th to hit a few semi finals, get knocked in the group stages a few times and maybe sneak a final or even win one, maybe.

That's about what they've done-got the big one in 1966, had a few semi's and been knocked out early a few times.

Luck's been against them a few times-'98 should have beat Argentina and lost a few penalty shoot-outs, which I don't think there's anything wrong with the English psyche, they're coin tosses and a coin toss can hit tails 5 times in a row with no issue.

But I think England on balance have slightly underachieved, but not by much.

You're good, you're just not that good and expectation is higher than where you are in the world standings.

You're basically a QF final team where the media and fans think (overall) that you'er a SF/Final team and the fallout from each campaign seems more disastrous than it really is.

Although losing to Iceland and the last WC are abortions of campaigns.

Dopesick

I said Bilic for England as soon as Hodgson resigned.

He's just the guy we need. Got English experience as a player and manager; he'll be ruthless but understanding; has international managerial experience, would be great on the touchline and he seems like the kind of guy that the average football fan would relate to, away from the somewhat stuffy image of older guys like Sven, Capello and Hodgson.

It also helps that he has a tendency to be eccentric and mad as a box of frogs which would be endearing with the casual fans.

Snap

I don't think we hate England. I just think we get so fed up at them underachieving, so often. Those players should perform better at a tournament. JUst look at what teams made up of lower league players deliver: as in Wales, Iceland for example.

klinsmann is being mentioned, he's good.

Hodgson, yep, totally forgot about Inter....err. lmao

lloyd

Hodgson back in the mid 90's told Roberto Carlos he would never make it as a left back!

lloyd

Snap said:

I don't think we hate England. I just think we get so fed up at them underachieving, so often. Those players should perform better at a tournament. JUst look at what teams made up of lower league players deliver: as in Wales, Iceland for example.

klinsmann is being mentioned, he's good.

Hodgson, yep, totally forgot about Inter....err. lmao

Part of that underachievement is IMHO down to the pressure put on the team by fans and media and the consequences of failure.

The crowd-funding to get Sterling home.

The front page of the Sun showing Rooney's kid crying.

The disgusting treatment of Beckham when he got sent off in '98.

The fucking pizza hut adverts with the missed penalty takers.

"3 Lions on a Shirt Song" played all the time-it's a song about winning the bloody trophy, and while I know you shouldn't be singing about a respectable SF finish it's hyperbolic

Not being able to go 5 minutes without mentioning 1966.

Never letting go of the "hand of God" moment, despite being outplayed by what was the best team and player in that tournament.

Booing the team at Wembley after a bad result.

The tribal nature of football clubs-Utd fans blaming Liverpool players and vice versa (I'm not sure if this is similar to other countries to be honest)

The fact that every player in the England squad plays in England therefore knowing failure is going to magnified more than if they played in Spain or Italy.

The list goes on.

Do you think the players don't get affected by the weight of expectation and fear of failure? 

Because I don't.

Bidley

Snap said:

I don't think we hate England. I just think we get so fed up at them underachieving, so often. Those players should perform better at a tournament. JUst look at what teams made up of lower league players deliver: as in Wales, Iceland for example.

The difference is that teams like Wales and Iceland are playing without fear. They don't give a shit if they lose; qualifying is a massive achievement for them, so anything more is a bonus.

English players know that one wrong move will land them with the wrath of the nation on their backs. Listen to how many armchair fans berate them for being overpaid this, and useless that. Nobody in this country backs the national team like they back their clubs. A fan will defend his club against anything; that same fan will pour scorn on the England team at the earliest possible opportunity.

Until we actually support our national team, we'll never get anywhere. We've been gash since Euro 96, and we've had umpteen players and managers since then.

Bidley

Also I agree we're not a top tier nation, not by a long shot. We're on the outer-reaches of 2nd tier, with teams like Croatia, Sweden etc. But fans aren't happy with that.