Massive Les Paul Confusion - Definitive guide anywhere?

SimpleSimon

Get a PRS Modern Eagle or a fancy Collection model instead,

Jock68

As you can see by the comments the R9 varies year by year, if you want the label then it must be a Gibson.  If you want a very good copy of a 59 then do not discount the Japanese manufactured guitars, they offer value for money and have precision and quality in their wood, build and components. 

crunchman

I wouldn't bother about chasing a specific year.  There will be minor cosmetic differences but you can find good ones (and bad ones) from any year.

Working out what neck you want is important.  On the Historics the R8, R9 and R0 all have difference neck profiles - other than that they are all pretty similar, although they tend to reserve the flashiest tops for the R9s if you want a flashy top.

Skipped

Well....I never expected this big variety of opinions on this thread,

MattP

 

RaymondLin said:

MattP said:

RaymondLin said:

In 2015 they added the True Historic line which is same as the Historic in 2014 but with a price hike to complicate things.

The TH and the 2014 historic aren't exactly the same, but the differences are relatively small. Post 15, the non TH reissues went back to a short tenon, which may or may not make a difference to you.

I've been through loads of Historics over the years, and am down to an r7, a 40 anniversary Murphy aged R9 and a cc#24 (True Historic).

Obviously, there are years to go for is specific specs are what you're looking for, such as 99/00s have arguably the nicest colours, 2003s have pointy inlays (and some have braz) and more recently they've moved to hide glues and correct dyes. To be honest though, play some, and these small differences will evaporate if you find the 'right' one. My 40th anniversary is the best Les Paul i've ever played in 20 years, and I don't care that the inlays are 'wrong', the tailpiece is straight, the truss rod has a condom and all the rest of it!

The necks also vary as they're finished by hand - my r7 has a very 59 style neck, and nowhere near the biggest i've ever experiences, which was attached to a 68ri custom.

Have fun on the hunt, sometimes that's the best bit!

As an aside £5k could get you into replica territory, ignoring the issues for and against that for now...

The differences are mostly plastic I believe.

It's slightly more - double carving the top and wet sanding the finish, hide gluing the top and - the most striking visual difference - is the pickup covers which are the right shape. There might be a few other bits, but I forget.

You're quite right though - these are really small changes which will only mean anything to a few people, but I guess as these guitars get more and more 'accurate', there becomes less to do to them. And accurate, as has been said elsewhere, certainly doesn't mean better in the context of the overall guitar.

cgumtree

Agree with @marantz1300 and @John_P, at 5k I'd at least take a look at something from the '60s. With a little haggling, I'd think you'll be in theballpark for a 68/69 Goldtop/Custom, or a '64 ES3xx if that interests you. Would probably be a few "issues" e.g. changed parts here and there, but if you're buying to play rather than keep in a bank vault, definitely worth a look.

UnclePsychosis

crunchman said:

I wouldn't bother about chasing a specific year.  There will be minor cosmetic differences but you can find good ones (and bad ones) from any year.

Working out what neck you want is important.  On the Historics the R8, R9 and R0 all have difference neck profiles - other than that they are all pretty similar, although they tend to reserve the flashiest tops for the R9s if you want a flashy top.

+1.

The thing for me with Les Pauls (and strats, and teles...) is that there are thousands of them everywhere. Just go and play a whole bunch, see what you like. One will probably speak to you. Worrying about finding a specific year or spec or whatever just seems like a never-ending quest to me.

Lodious

I've played a reasonable number of 58/59 RI's and most have been really good, but I played one (think it was a 2011 or 2012) which was an absolute turd of a guitar. To me a '59 should be light and resonant, but this one was like a lump of stone. I'd have been disappointed if I'd have paid Standard money for it, let alone 4.5 K.

So as others have said, def. try before you buy. I'd be far happier getting a good one new at 5K than a s/h dog at 2.2k.

stickyfiddle

Lodious said:

So as others have said, def. try before you buy. I'd be far happier getting a good one new at 5K than a s/h dog at 2.2k.

I don't disagree, but it's worth bearing in mind that the dog would've been 4k+ new and the good one will be worth 2.2k in 2 years' time. 

The key with buying *any* guitar at that price range is finding a really good one and grabbing hold of it.

TTony

Voxman said:

I have permission from Mrs Voxman to treat myself to a quality guitar up to £5k, and I'm leaning heavily to another Les Paul as my 1990 LP Custom is very lonely!   

[edit]

In short....HEEEEELP!  

If you're only "leaning heavily" and not absolutely set on it being a bigG, a trip to Croydon to see Mr Feline might serve you well, it being not exactly far from you.

You could spec *exactly* what you want in terms of timbers, hardware, finish, neck profile, weight (etc, etc, etc) and get a sizeable chunk of change from your budget - certainly enough to buy Mrs Voxman a very large bunch of flowers for being so understanding.  And probably a new amp for yourself too.

If I was spending £5k, I'd want to check one or two other options.

Sorry, now I'm "that guy" too.

Aidanspaghetti

Just think, you could buy a LP standard, and a nocaster and a Ej strat and HAVE CHANGE!!!!!!!!!
But its your money and the historics are a thing of beauty.
NO help here, sorry.

mburekenge

I was on the hunt for a reissue burst and was certain I'd end up with a lemon burst or ice tea R9.

On the hunt I played loads of different historics... The one the spoke to me the most when it was in my grubby mitts was an R7 in the end! The others didn't come close. I love that guitar, so it pays to keep an open mind.

that being said, I still have that nagging GAS feeling for a burst reissue. Curses.

nickb_boy

You should definitely go search through the content on mylespaul.  They'll be able to tell you which year had the closest glue used and which ones have the most accurate smell in the case compared to a real '59.  The depth of knowledge about which plastics are the best repro versions and which ones have the correct stamping inside the pickup rings is unbelievable.  It truly is a minefield.  

Over recent years I've seen far less of a difference between the r8 and r9 tops.  Often I find the r9 maple caps almost over the top in terms of flame, where as the flame and figuring on some r8s comes closer and looks more true to the vintage versions.  The neck profiles also tend to vary a fair bit even within the same production year so I wouldn't necessarily rule out a thicker 58 contour or a slim r0 without feeling it in person.  

With that budget it is going to be a lot of fun heading to stores to check out what they have to offer whatever you decide.

If you're after a companion for your custom and set on a Gibson which has to be as close to a 59 as possible then I'd go grab a real vintage 59 Les Paul Junior.  You could get an all original one with real aging and lacquer checking.  That has the same profile neck, Brazilian rosewood board and the bumblebee cap, but an awesome p90 and light on your back to play.  Plus it would have more mojo than you could shake a stick at.  If you could settle for a slightly later case to house it in you'd still have nearly a grand in change to buy a used amp!  But then again it's not my money

Enjoy the shopping experience, you're in for a real treat thanks to your very generous Mrs!!

Blaendulais

You must get the case  smell as near as possible or its 5K down the drain basically. 

tone1

I think you'll find that I've got the definitive Burst...

"http://s1373.photobucket.com/user/tonysmyth1/media/Mobile Uploads/DBDDE8F7-4504-42B4-844C-56E882EC3D67_zpsfky382oh.jpg.html" "http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag391/tonysmyth1/Mobile Uploads/DBDDE8F7-4504-42B4-844C-56E882EC3D67_zpsfky382oh.jpg" 

RandallFlagg

What was it Peter Kaye said about luminous food? (Picalilli) 

Voxman

Wow, thanks guys - lots of very helpful info, lots of good suggestions... and lots of differences of opinion! lol

OK, definitely going to be a Gibson Les Paul - re other suggestions I already have a PRS Cu24, and whilst Feline make some outstanding guitars my concern is resale value.  I'm also not looking for a 'vintage' 60's/70's Les Paul because I want something that plays, sounds and feels like a 58/59 - I played an original 59 and 58 at Sam Ash in New York a few years back and fell in love with them (well, who wouldn't!) - but didn't happen to have $125 -150,000 handy.  These were very different to 60's/70's LP's.  

So I'm initially thinking R8/R9 or (based on feedback here) possibly an R7.  I was always going for used, and a budget of £3k should be plenty - I'm also worried that if I spent £5k I'd be frightened to take it out & play it...which is the whole point.  

Thanks again everyone for the great responses.  Now, I need to find some to play ...I'll keep y'all posted. 

andyoz

I see you're in London so you should only be a train ride away from some nice used 2014 R8 and R9's for under £3k.  I bought a R9 blind from a member here (I'm in NI) and it's a lively/resonant rock machine.  Coda Music have a few in I think and are well regarded around these parts.

ESBlonde

Play a whole lot of examples and pass up no opportunity to try a guitar. Remember that one of the USA/world autorities on original bursts owns and plays a 57 goldtop because it plays and sound the best! Don't be swayed by colour or smell, just play it and you'll know when it's right.

SimpleSimon

ESBlonde said:

Play a whole lot of examples and pass up no opportunity to try a guitar. Remember that one of the USA/world autorities on original bursts owns and plays a 57 goldtop because it plays and sound the best! Don't be swayed by colour or smell, just play it and you'll know when it's right.

He plays an Epiphone doesn't he?