1958, 59, 60? Gibson LP Special/Junior re-re-build

xJonnysixstring

It already has been filled where there were at some point 4 knobs and a 3 way so no original wood will be lost, apart from maybe where the neck pickup will go. A mate of mine has a 59 special originally owned by Steve Howe so I am going to try and take some measurements from that if I can and get the exact location of the pickup right! I will post more pics as things progress

ICBM

Jonnysixstring said:

It already has been filled where there were at some point 4 knobs and a 3 way so no original wood will be lost, apart from maybe where the neck pickup will go. A mate of mine has a 59 special originally owned by Steve Howe so I am going to try and take some measurements from that if I can and get the exact location of the pickup right! I will post more pics as things progress

Make sure it's the type where the neck pickup is further from the neck - the '58s and early '59s have a bad habit of the neck falling off - it should be obvious why, although for some reason it wasn't to Gibson!

Bad:

http://cdn1.gbase.com/usercontent/gear/3009034/p2_uqsksxv2l_so.jpg

Good:

http://www.themusiczoo.com/images/11-04-11/60_Les_Paul_Special_Double_Cut_09221_1.jpg

The later version also has a much larger control cavity which will cleanly remove all the existing internal damage, although either of them will involve removing some original wood.

impmann

If you like a conventional neck pickup tone, you may not like the sound of a LP DC Special... As ICBM the neck unit needs shifting down the body so you don't chop into the tenon. But this gives it a VERY different tone to other neck units, its much closer to a mid pickup tone on a Strat with a bit more bass. It doesn't quite give you that plummy lead tone you get from a Les Paul or even a Strat.
It's not a bad sound - just different, that's all. And before you carve holes in it, it may be an idea to play a similar spec guitar to see if you actually like it.
Personally, I'd still keep it a Junior - as it will be worth more and look achingly cool - total Johnny Thunders!! :-)

ChrisMusic

Just wondering if it was possible to do a complete custom P90, one that is much shallower, and therefore would only take a minimal route and be able to get closer the the neck safely?

P90s seem to have the bobbin under wound, so a shallower bobbin with a wider winding might just work.  The field from the magnet layout seems pretty big.  Cue Ash and Van_Hayden to tell me if that is a silly idea, or won't sound anything like a P90? But maybe worth consideration?

I have an old Dan Armstrong sliding pickup assembly, and the pickup is only about 0.25" deep.  Admittedly it is a low impedance design, but it's got me thinking, as I have always loved the LP DC shape, so maybe worth a try for me too ?  hmmmm...  

OilCityPickups

ChrisMusic said:

Just wondering if it was possible to do a complete custom P90, one that is much shallower, and therefore would only take a minimal route and be able to get closer the the neck safely?

P90s seem to have the bobbin under wound, so a shallower bobbin with a wider winding might just work.  The field from the magnet layout seems pretty big.  Cue Ash and Van_Hayden to tell me if that is a silly idea, or won't sound anything like a P90? But maybe worth consideration?

I have an old Dan Armstrong sliding pickup assembly, and the pickup is only about 0.25" deep.  Admittedly it is a low impedance design, but it's got me thinking, as I have always loved the LP DC shape, so maybe worth a try for me too ?  hmmmm...  

The limit of a P90 design is already pretty close with the pickup at the depth of  normal 90 If you narow down the coil any further you will end up with a sort of weak Jazzmaster tone.You might get away with making the pickup rout shallower than normal: just the depth it needs to take the pickup with no adjustment down ... but that's a risky strategy. A standard P90 is 0.648 inch deep ... so in theory you could get away with a rout that was only perhaps 0.5 of an inch. The limiting factor in P90 height are the magnets underneath.
I'd keep it single pickup.

ICBM

I'd put the second pickup in the right place . I think they look better there too, it matches the double-cut shape far better than up by the fingerboard.

Who cares what it sounds like?

Actually I think they sound fine - not quite that pure classic neck pickup position tone, but close enough. If not, just play a bit higher up the neck and it will be .

ChrisMusic

Cool  

Interesting stuff, thanks to both Ash & ICBM.

That's right, the usual harmonic point (24th fret-ish on open strings) changes as you play up the neck, good point.

xJonnysixstring

Think I need to do a bit A B testing

ThePrettyDamned

It's like a pickup on a 24 fret guitar I guess. Sounds great, but different.

usedtobe

It's gonna be pretty awesome, whatever!

xJonnysixstring

Just dropped off at Eternal Guitars for repairs to begin, I have my mates 59 special original as a reference until tomorrow, having played that for a little while that is definitely the direction the build is going to go! Might just have to get back to playing that one now it is a very special special

xJonnysixstring

Please see the below link to the original build diary on Facebook:

 https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.645929965418814.1073741851.155072074504608&type=3

ThePrettyDamned

Nice. I'll look forward to seeing the result!

xJonnysixstring

Amongst these hand wound beauties you might spot a P90 in the making for a certain LP Junior into Special conversion A prize to the one who guesses the origin/maker of these pickups!

xJonnysixstring

Sorry for lack of updates on this but what was once 2 is now once again 1

TheDarkLord

Jonnysixstring said:

Amongst these hand wound beauties you might spot a P90 in the making for a certain LP Junior into Special conversion A prize to the one who guesses the origin/maker of these pickups!

Well ..... Dave used to use Wizard pickups, but now he does his own.  Do I get the prize?

xJonnysixstring

Your very close, but no biscuit I'm afraid

ThePrettyDamned

Ooo... Mojo?

xJonnysixstring

Sorry have neglected this thread, Busy times setting up Hot Rod Pickups, this project has been on the back burner. Decisions have been made and routing has happened! The neck is solid as a rock, I did a few gigs on her with just the bridge P90 and it sounded epic but not something I would use often, So with the original plan of creating a guitar I would play a lot (the value is gone anyhow) I decided to go with my favourite combo of HB in bridge and P90 in neck. See pictures below of the neck fix, re-re-finish and routing, all work carried out by the master Dave Walsh of Eternal Guitars and paint guru of the Eternal Paint Shop Paul Ross.

xJonnysixstring

Jig made, routing started