did Mark Knopfler rip off of Snowy White ?

CDM83

I’m sure this is old ground for some…

 

But just listened to Snowy White's Bird of Paradise and was staggered at the similarity to Brothers in Arms.  

 

Not a dig at Mark Knophler  – his tone on that track one of my all-time favourites and I guess nothing is truly original  – but I’d not come across this one before. 

Travisthedog

Nope

richardhomer

We've had a thread on this before - there's a similarity between the middle eight of Brothers in Arms and Bird of Paradise - but they're not 'the same'.

The actual guitar sound is very different - trebly/both pick-ups on/out of phase from Snowy White into a clean(ish) amp - and dark neck pick-up into a much more driven JTM45 (with little treble) from MK.

Gassage

richardhomer said:

We've had a thread on this before - there's a similarity between the middle eight of Brothers in Arms and Bird of Paradise - but they're not 'the same'.

The actual guitar sound is very different - trebly/both pick-ups on/out of phase from Snowy White into a clean(ish) amp - and dark neck pick-up into a much more driven JTM45 (with little treble) from MK.

Point of order- Brothers in Arms is both pups too.

richardhomer

Gassage said:

richardhomer said:

We've had a thread on this before - there's a similarity between the middle eight of Brothers in Arms and Bird of Paradise - but they're not 'the same'.

The actual guitar sound is very different - trebly/both pick-ups on/out of phase from Snowy White into a clean(ish) amp - and dark neck pick-up into a much more driven JTM45 (with little treble) from MK.

Point of order- Brothers in Arms is both pups too.

On tour he had a push-pull pot added to his pre-Historic and played both on/out of phase. 

The studio version sounds like the neck pick-up alone. It's a very dark sound - hardly any treble at all.

CDM83

For me, the ‘similarity’ isn’t the guitar tone, it’s the feel of the playing and the underlying chord structure/melody.

 

I don’t think any less of Knopfler because of it. But people have sued over less obvious similarities, IMO.

horse

Not heard it before, but the similarities in the verse are striking aren't they? I think artists can sometimes recycle things they have heard without realising it - particularly if they only heard it in passing etc. Wouldn't imagine MK bothering to 'compose' such a tribute if he was aware of the similarity

guitars4you

I think Bird of Paradise is one of the best LP tones you'll hear - so much emotion in that tone  - no saturated gain so you can hear the guitar and each note breathe

ChuckManual

"Snowy White couldn't carry a tune in a briefcase!" - John Sykes.

...is a quote that always had me laughing.

...at John Sykes.

Skipped

My favourite quote from a guitarist was from the 17 year old Gary Moore just after Skid Row got famous(ish).

BBC Radio 1 Interviewer on Saturday Lunchtime Rock show:  So Gary......People are saying that you are "Faster than Alvin Lee".  What do you think about that Gary?

Gary Moore: "Alvin Lee? I can wank faster than Alvin Lee."

(It was a live show)

Gassage

I absolutely love this version- the passion and note choice at the end is astounding.

Gassage

Snowy's Gold top sold for $93000.

If I had had the money I'd have bought it. One of my dream machines.

meltedbuzzbox

Gassage said:

Snowy's Gold top sold for $93000.

If I had had the money I'd have bought it. One of my dream machines.

Who? :-p

Sassafras

Gassage said:

Snowy's Gold top sold for $93000.

If I had had the money I'd have bought it. One of my dream machines.

Come on, if you sold a tenth of your rig, you could easily afford that.

Sassafras

He's got an unusual style, just using his thumb to pick the strings. It looks quite awkward but he makes it work.

richardhomer

Sassafras said:

He's got an unusual style, just using his thumb to pick the strings. It looks quite awkward but he makes it work.

I watched an Eric Clapton concert the other night and noticed Andy Fairweather Low does exactly the same thing. Both used to play with picks AFAIK.

Wes Montgomery was famous for using his thumb IIRC.

It must make right hand damping very awkward, I would think....

jpfamps

I always thought that Bird of Paradise was inspired by Peter Green. Regardless, it's a good song spoilt by 80's production.

The album it's on White Flames is, sadly, one of the worst albums I've ever heard. 

richardhomer

jpfamps said:

I always thought that Bird of Paradise was inspired by Peter Green. Regardless, it's a good song spoilt by 80's production.

The album it's on White Flames is, sadly, one of the worst albums I've ever heard. 

Snowy White played most of the lead guitar on Peter Green's late 70s come back album 'Into The Skies'.

sweepy

Bird of Paradise was 2 years before Brothers in Arms, just saying 

Rocker

Nowhere on Bird of Paradise do I hear Brothers in Arms.  Both guitars have 6 strings probably tuned in a similar fashion.....

thebreeze

jpfamps said:

I always thought that Bird of Paradise was inspired by Peter Green. Regardless, it's a good song spoilt by 80's production.

The album it's on White Flames is, sadly, one of the worst albums I've ever heard. 

Yep.  That's really awful.  I really hate that '80's sound.

Personally, I think Knopfler is a few thousand light years better than Snowy White (whatever "better" means).