Advice required, guitar I've bought has an issue

menamestom

I've just bought this guitar from somebody, didn't notice at the time but on getting it home could see orange peel round the headstock and a few on the tuner washers upside down.  It was sold 'as new/immaculate'

I bought the guitar cash 'off ebay' so probably have no protection, but on initial contact look like they are not willing to offer any kind of refund.  I might be proven wrong, but want to see what if anything I can do should it come to that.  The guitar has been assessed by a luthier and he's going to send me an email to state that it's a definite repair job.

I feel a bit daft for not spotting it, but the owner had died and I picked it up of his widow who was visibly upset and I let my guard down.  The family may or may not have known about the repair but said he got it new, although they were not sure where.

Whatever happens, I'll not keep the guitar, so could do with some ideas on value.  They are 1k new, I paid £700, so would need to know what a headstock repair would wipe off that.  The guitar is mint otherwise and plays really nice.  I'd keep it but it makes me feel a bit shit just looking at it, so there's no way I will.

Here's the advert:-

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322290627816?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

mort

This happened to me once, a Strat off EBay, cash on collection. Sloppy inspection on my part, didn't notice till I got home that there were lacquer cracks around the skunk stripe and along the back of the headstock.
i phoned the seller the same afternoon and explained that I wanted to return it for a full refund. He wasn't too happy but agreed and I returned it the following day, no problems.

l was lucky (sold as seen etc) however I think a reasonable seller would refund you in your situation. What did they say when you contacted them? 

professorben

Is orange peel not where the finish has sunk into the wood?

if so it's entirely possible that this was the case as it was bought, either way if you conducted the sale outside of eBay you don't really have much recourse. 

"You pay your money you take your choice"

as the classic John Schofield fusion tune goes. 

I'm afraid I think you are stuck with either the option of keeping or selling, but I see no reason not to make your money back, it's a stunning guitar. 
Good luck. 

Rave

Wet sand it and polish it.

menamestom

professorben said:

Is orange peel not where the finish has sunk into the wood?

When I took it to the Luthier, he said 'that's been off'.  The finish immaculate all over the guitar, except the headstock which looks like a reasonable rattle can job.  He said there's no way that's come out of the factory like that, it has had a repair.

menamestom

Rave said:

Wet sand it and polish it.

It's not  the finish I'm worried about, more what's underneath it.....

menamestom

mort said:

l was lucky (sold as seen etc) however I think a reasonable seller would refund you in your situation. What did they say when you contacted them? 

Only had a quick conversation with the guy who listed it,   but when I mentioned a refund he said 'I know what she'll say', meaning his mum who I collected it from would not give the money back and they had financial issues.  This wasn't really sold as seen, it was listed as new/immaculate and they said it had never been played (probably because it was in bits)

paul_c2

Outside of eBay, you don't have any further protection.

The guitar needs to be as described, but "as new/immaculate" is open to interpretation - because its as new, not new. So, its secondhand....therefore some amount of imperfection is reasonable. If the seller knew about the repair, and knew it was substandard, and was dishonest with you regarding it, then you'd have a reasonable case but it would be difficult to prove this - they would basically have to confess it. And since you were given the opportunity to look at the guitar before handing over the cash, then you also had reasonable opportunity to inspect it and/or further negotiate on price, or walk away.

Just looked at the eBay advert - its interesting that the listing says "new", but then the description has "as new" - you'd have definitely had a valid claim here, if you'd bought it on eBay.

I don't really know what to further suggest - if you really can't cope with the paintwork, then get the luthier to fix it but 1) it will never quite match a factory finish and 2) you'd have to pay 100% of this, I don't think you have a valid claim here.

kipple

I have owned a few Ibanez artist guitars that were built in the 80s and some of those had the orange peel paint effect and it was just on the the headstock and I know for a fact they were definitely not repaired as I bought them from new. They just had a shitty paint job on the headstock.
  
It isn't uncommon to find orange peel on brand new Historic Gibson LP customs and again it's always on the headstock.

menamestom

https://imgur.com/a/TjP90

menamestom

kipple said:

I have owned a few Ibanez artist guitars that were built in the 80s and some of those had the orange peel paint effect and it was just on the the headstock and they were definitely not repaired. Just a shitty paint job.
  
It isn't uncommon on Historic gibson LP customs and again it's always on the headstock.

It's not in doubt, you can see where it has been sprayed over.  Not just a finish issue, definite repair job. 

fretmeister

menamestom said:

kipple said:

I have owned a few Ibanez artist guitars that were built in the 80s and some of those had the orange peel paint effect and it was just on the the headstock and they were definitely not repaired. Just a shitty paint job.
  
It isn't uncommon on Historic gibson LP customs and again it's always on the headstock.

It's not in doubt, you can see where it has been sprayed over.  Not just a finish issue, definite repair job. 

Small Claims Court then.

menamestom

  paul_c2 said:

I don't really know what to further suggest - if you really can't cope with the paintwork, then get the luthier to fix it but 1) it will never quite match a factory finish and 2) you'd have to pay 100% of this, I don't think you have a valid claim here.

Yeah, possibly not much I can do really. Again it's not the paintwork, it's more knowing it's had a major repair and it's not what I thought it was.  I might not have much recourse but If I'd sold a guitar and found out it had a headstock break and I had not mentioned it, I'd be mortified and give the money back straight away.

Especially gutted as it's a 40th birthday present from my family

menamestom

fretmeister said:

menamestom said:

kipple said:

I have owned a few Ibanez artist guitars that were built in the 80s and some of those had the orange peel paint effect and it was just on the the headstock and they were definitely not repaired. Just a shitty paint job.
  
It isn't uncommon on Historic gibson LP customs and again it's always on the headstock.

It's not in doubt, you can see where it has been sprayed over.  Not just a finish issue, definite repair job. 

Small Claims Court then.

That's a good suggestion, thanks.

Bidley

Can anyone guide me to where the problem is? I'm obviously not learned enough. I can't see anything wrong in the photos @menamestom just posted.

paul_c2

This was definitely a private sale, right? Not a dealer?

Drew_TNBD

Caveat emptor.

menamestom

Bidley said:

Can anyone guide me to where the problem is? I'm obviously not learned enough. I can see anything wrong in the photos @menamestom just posted.

Hard to show in a photo.  But basically, the headstock has been broke, it's been reset and sprayed over again.  I took it to Ged Green in Cheadle, who builds guitars and does such repairs (who incidentally is kindly sending me a report) and he advised that it has definitely had a repair, most probably the scarf joint was broken and re set.

menamestom

Drew_TNBD said:

Caveat emptor.

"In the UK, consumer law has moved away from the caveat emptor model, with laws passed that have enhanced consumer rights and allow greater leeway to return goods that do not meet legal standards of acceptance.[3] Consumer purchases are regulated by the Consumer Rights Act 2015, whilst business-to-business purchases are regulated by the Sale of Goods Act 1979."

andrewaward

black light it,that will show up new lacquer/repair

fretmeister

menamestom said:

Drew_TNBD said:

Caveat emptor.

"In the UK, consumer law has moved away from the caveat emptor model, with laws passed that have enhanced consumer rights and allow greater leeway to return goods that do not meet legal standards of acceptance.[3] Consumer purchases are regulated by the Consumer Rights Act 2015, whilst business-to-business purchases are regulated by the Sale of Goods Act 1979."

Doesn't apply to private sales.