Raising funds - how should we?

WezV

How about a single "I donated" badge that's lasts 1 year from the donation.

Strat_a_tat_tat

Not sure about a donor badge.

But a doner badge could work... users get one doner badge when they contribute the price of a kebab.

WezV

You could also link it to the allowance of a sig or avatar.   

digitalscream

monofin said:

How about a gear auction. We've all got unused stuff lying about. I could throw a guitar in to start it off

I like this idea, but I'm not sure how we'd go about it.

Speaking personally (and not on behalf of the admins), I'm not a fan of generalised ads at all, for two reasons: they can be annoying, and I don't want anything on this site that we don't control. One thing that I did suggest as a future development - back when we first built this place - would be to follow the Penny Arcade route and have a very limited set of adverts for companies who we both approve of and want to support.

As for admin time, since it's come up a few times...I'd guess that if we were to put a value on the admin time equal to our salaries, we'd be looking at > £100k since we opened the doors. There's no way we'd ever be able to support that, so we just don't get paid

However, it's worth noting that our direct hosting costs have increased by about 20% thanks to the currency crash after the Brexit vote. We're not immune to it, either...

EDIT: With the suggestion of paying for access to the classifieds...it's all well and good everybody in this discussion saying they'd be happy to pay, but...you're all regulars. We rely on the classifieds to bring in new members (if you're not growing, you're shrinking), and putting a barrier in front of that - even if it's not immediate, but rather "start off for free, and pay if you like it" - many people see that and click away, so it's almost certainly going to hit that growth.

EricTheWeary

Hard to evidence but feedback from trying to publicise the forum ( at the guitar show)is that 'free adverts' is pretty much the light bulb moment for a lot of people. Even if someone joins just to buy one thing I think that's still a contribution because if stuff sells it shows stuff sells and therefore people are more likely to advertise,etc, etc. 

PolarityMan said:

Why not drop the classifieds? Reduces you traffic costs, reduces chance the mods will be entangled in sorting out scams and tbh the classifieds haven't had the feel of the old days where people were passing on bargains etc for a long time?

Tone71

I used to frequent a forum that introduced a donor badge system but it only created an us and them situation, lots of hostility and arguments.

I like the idea of donating to purchase though, happily would and agree it would stop the "buy only" traffic

TTony

digitalscream said:

We rely on the classifieds to bring in new members (if you're not growing, you're shrinking), and putting a barrier in front of that - even if it's not immediate, but rather "start off for free, and pay if you like it" - many people see that and click away, so it's almost certainly going to hit that growth

Which is exactly why - and I keep saying this - that read-only access to the Classifieds would remain completely unaffected.

If someone is searching for a particular item, and Google displays the relevant thread from the Classifieds here (as it often does), the non-member would still be able to see the ad and assure themselves that it's what they really want.

*BUT*, if they wanted to take it further, either via PM with the OP or by posting on the thread, *THEN* they'd need to have paid.  No payment = no ability to interact with the Classifieds threads.

That would be a real incentive to pay up.


Similarly, if someone joins just to post FS ads (avoiding eBay/Reverb fees and the Gumtree "experience"), they'll again need to pay first.  If they want to use our free platform to avoid the costs of the other sales routes, that seems fair?

It might be that we relax those rules for people who sign up and become active members of the community.  So, if you've got 100 posts, then the fees are waived.  Naturally, 100 posts of "I agree" gets a ban rather than a free pass.

TTony

Tone71 said:

I used to frequent a forum that introduced a donor badge system but it only created an us and them situation, lots of hostility and arguments.

How about everyone gets an "I'm a freeloader" badge by default, which gets removed if/when they make a small donation?

Moe_Zambeek

I know some boards where you can view classifieds but need to pay to PM / get contact details. This is for motorcycles so high ticket. In any case the result is the death of the classifieds, people won't pay to get access to buy, they go somewhere free, like eBay, even if the £10 membership might save them hundreds. A small core of members use the classifieds but it's not clear if anything sells...

People may scoff but TGP is one of the best models I've seen for this; it's transparent and they do a yearly state of the Union on costs, membership etc. TGP started off much like this place and grew massively, there is some serious lesson learning there. Maybe a mod should contact Brian Scherzer and seek some input.

Ultimately though, I think the owners of this forum need to decide what they own it *for*, and then decide how to fund it, bearing in mind that at some point (if it remains successful) the revenues / costs will reach a point where it becomes 'a business' even if they'd rather it wasn't.

thomasross20

How much do you need per year and how many forumites are there? I've not been on a load recently but PayPal donation sounds easy enough.

DiscoStu

I think there's nothing wrong with just asking for a whip round, like Wikipedia are doing just now. I have bought a few things - calenders, t shirt - as I use this forum all the time and understand it's being run voluntarily but obviously has running costs.
Ask everyone for £2, £5, £x, and you may find you get more than what you bring in with a fixed amount of calendars or tees which also have manufacturing costs. If everyone on here gave you £1...
If you don't try you'll never know. And it won't cost you anything.

octatonic

I vote for a yearly access fee for classifieds.

bigjon

I make an annual 'Friend Of The Forum' £20 contribution on the anniversary of the Fretboard starting on the first Saturday in August. I'd encourage others to do the same and publicise it. I prefer the approach of donating to a volunteer enterprise rather than they our paying for stuff.

ourmaninthenorth

TTony said:

Tone71 said:

I used to frequent a forum that introduced a donor badge system but it only created an us and them situation, lots of hostility and arguments.

How about everyone gets an "I'm a freeloader" badge by default, which gets removed if/when they make a small donation?

Ok, as owners there's a lot of if's being banded about, what if it's a business, what if it isn't.

What is the bottom line? You're asking for contributions, what for and how much? Break it down, so that we freeloaders can make our own decisions.

PVO_Dave

Said it before and someone else mentioned it above, auto affiliate linking. Skimlinks works very well, it's invisible, eBay are one of the better payers too, which would work well for you guys. 

Even happy to help implement should you need it (which I doubt )

Modmins, If you want anymore info, drop me a PM

joeyowen

Tgp approach works, and is tried and tested. 

Got to contribute to list an add. Also get a badge showing just how much of a gun loving top citizen you are! 

thomasross20

I rarely use classifieds - maybe a blanket donation would be better. Tough one!

JookyChap

I think adding anything formal - controls on access to the classifieds, levies on sales, annual fees and so on - will kill the USP of this place which is that it is free, ad-free and a community. I've got no problem putting my hand in my pocket, and have probably gained more from other people on here than I've given, but I think raising funds as a 'community' adds something rather than takes away from the place and that is what we should be aiming for - something that improves the place rather than limits it.

I like the auction idea. I'd encourage all the business chaps to chip something in for an annual auction for the business that gets driven their way, plus all the members that can, can do the same - and to keep things real do it as a dutch auction where everybody that bids puts a few bob in, and somebody gets a proper bargain. Keeps it interesting and you don't get some noob hoovering up a load of bargains that way.

The businesses get free reign in the Made in the UK section for the price of a prize, and we encourage them to join in in the rest of the forum.

Make it an annual event and promote it, using it as a way of getting more members

Other than that - yep. the odd reminder to donate here and there is cool and a whip round is fine too, again they are about being part of something rather than an admission charge

m_c

Personally, as mostly a lurker and very very occasional buyer (I've bought one item in the time I've been a member), I don't like the idea of a paywall.
If I had to of paid to buy, I doubt I would of bought, as it was pretty much an impulse purchase. Something popped up that I had been considering, at a price I though was fair, so bought it. If I'd had to of pay a fee to be able to buy it, I doubt I would of bought it.

I'm all for raffles (I've entered one, but can't remember what it was for!), or just gentle reminders to donate occasionally.

I'd much rather see the more commercial sellers, offer up raffle prizes, rather than force them to donate.
For example, I'm sure if the commercial guys offered up something like a few packs of strings of the raffle winner(s) choice, plenty people would pay a quid or two a ticket. That way everybody should benefit. The seller can donate something with a perceived value higher than what it really costs them while getting some good publicity, the fretboard hopefully gets lots of donations, and it encourages people to donate and get the chance of winning something useful.

Off course, admin of it could be a bit involved. I would offer to help, but I'm currently buried under a mountain of work that just seems to keep getting bigger :-/
I'm sure there must be some form of ticketing system about that could handle it though..

scrumhalf

Let's not overcomplicate this, it should be easy to come to some sort of amicable settlement. After all, we're guitarists, it's not like we have loads of different opinions about stuff.

1) How much does the site cost to run per year?
I don't have the first clue, and it would be illuminating to find out. Let's see the size of the mountain before we decide how to conquer it.

2) How many regular users are there?
It strikes me that there is a simple equation here, an annual sub of £cost / no. of regulars.

3) What is the easiest way of accumulating the greatest amount of money for the least amount of effort?
Some sort of "sales tax" probably necessitates too much time and money checking up on frequent small payments, it would add to the admin burden. Would non-payers be chased? Not everyone buys or sells here, but we've all taken advantage of assistance on a wide range of subjects.

4) No refunds for flouncers.