Junior or Special?

IvisonGuitars

bodhi said:

^ that is very useful - thanks for taking the time!

I played SGs for years, but now I find them to be quite awkward for some reason.  Perhaps I just need to get used to one again.

Another question:  Is there any difference between the P90s used in Gibson historics vs. Gibson USA guitars?  I don't recall ever coming across any info which indicated that there was.

Thanks for all the replies.

I think - but don't quote me - that they are the same P90......This is possibly the most useless thing i've posted on here for a good while but hey ho!!

However, I do think the Custom Shop P90 Gibson is currently making is excellent... 

Whitecat

The design of the P90s Gibson USA uses were changed in the 2015 model year. I am not sure if they remain different but they are not the same as the vintage-correct versions that Gibson Custom will use. They are not bad at all though. 

IvisonGuitars

Whitecat said:

The design of the P90s Gibson USA uses were changed in the 2015 model year. I am not sure if they remain different but they are not the same as the vintage-correct versions that Gibson Custom will use. They are not bad at all though. 

Ah right, I didn't know that, ta! :-)

Bridgehouse

Special. Anyone who says Junior is wrong for two reasons 

1. Neck pickup
2. There isn't a second reason 

bodhi

I'll probably try and find one from 2009/2010.  I believe that at the time Gibson made what they called a "1958 reissue" - but only in terms of them having a 50's neck profile - not in terms of the Custom Shop historic reissue models.

ICBM

bodhi said:

I've heard that the lack of a neck pickup affects the sound, because only the bridge pickup has magnetic pull on the strings - more or less that idea.

Yes. You can show this very easily with an Esquire, which is exactly the same as a Telecaster except for not having the neck pickup - it has the same bridge pickup mounting and the same routs under the pickguard.

On a Les Paul Special there's also the neck pickup rout to take account of - even on a singlecut, it will change the resonance of the neck-to-body joint because there is a large chunk of wood taken out right at the end of the neck tenon compared to a Junior. On a doublecut it's more drastic - the wood in that area is so weakened that the early ones have a habit of the neck falling off, until Gibson moved the pickup further away from the fingerboard after a year or so.

DrBob

Bridgehouse said:

Special. Anyone who says Junior is wrong for two reasons 

1. Neck pickup
2. There isn't a second reason 

Said the man with a picture of a single pickup PBass in his avatar ! 

Bridgehouse

DrBob said:

Bridgehouse said:

Special. Anyone who says Junior is wrong for two reasons 

1. Neck pickup
2. There isn't a second reason 

Said the man with a picture of a single pickup PBass in his avatar ! 

Indeed. Basses are different. Basses only need 1 pickup. There are two reasons for this:

1. P Bass
2. Stingray

However, having a junior would mean missing out on the neck pickup. It would be like dating just the top half of Jennifer Anniston 

Brize

Junior if it's a Les Paul; Special if it's an SG.

Bridgehouse

Brize said:

Junior if it's a Les Paul; Special if it's an SG.

Name, or shape?

Rabs

I also say Double Cut Special...   It roars and has the most comfortable neck I have ever played...  Also on a DC you get better upper fret access...

Brize

Bridgehouse said:

Brize said:

Junior if it's a Les Paul; Special if it's an SG.

Name, or shape?

Traditional understanding of the two types, leaving aside the 1958-1962 crossover period.

Bridgehouse

Brize said:

Bridgehouse said:

Brize said:

Junior if it's a Les Paul; Special if it's an SG.

Name, or shape?

Traditional understanding of the two types, leaving aside the 1958-1962 crossover period.

Ah ok. Only ask cos I have such a crossover Gibson weirdo.

LP DC shape. 1962. In the ledger as a SG Special.

Brize

Bridgehouse said:

Brize said:

Bridgehouse said:

Brize said:

Junior if it's a Les Paul; Special if it's an SG.

Name, or shape?

Traditional understanding of the two types, leaving aside the 1958-1962 crossover period.

Ah ok. Only ask cos I have such a crossover Gibson weirdo.

LP DC shape. 1962. In the ledger as a SG Special.

Yep, I know your guitar - I played it at David Pym's and it's very nice.

usedtobe

Bridgehouse said:

DrBob said:

Bridgehouse said:

Special. Anyone who says Junior is wrong for two reasons 

1. Neck pickup
2. There isn't a second reason 

Said the man with a picture of a single pickup PBass in his avatar ! 

Indeed. Basses are different. Basses only need 1 pickup. There are two reasons for this:

1. P Bass
2. Stingray

However, having a junior would mean missing out on the neck pickup. It would be like dating just the top half of Jennifer Anniston 

I'd date either half, tbh..

Bridgehouse

Brize said:

Bridgehouse said:

Brize said:

Bridgehouse said:

Brize said:

Junior if it's a Les Paul; Special if it's an SG.

Name, or shape?

Traditional understanding of the two types, leaving aside the 1958-1962 crossover period.

Ah ok. Only ask cos I have such a crossover Gibson weirdo.

LP DC shape. 1962. In the ledger as a SG Special.

Yep, I know your guitar - I played it at David Pym's and it's very nice.

I played his two SG Specials as well, and the SG Junior - the Specials were real nice, but something about this one just spoke to me. I reckon I play it 75% of the time on the neck pickup

ellangus

Junior all day long for me.

monoamine

It's obviously a Junior.
Specials are just a bit.. well.. special.
I mean how f***king cool is this?!

ellangus

monoamine said:

It's obviously a Junior.
Specials are just a bit.. well.. special.
I mean how f***king cool is this?!

As f***k!

Brize

Bridgehouse said:

Brize said:

Bridgehouse said:

Brize said:

Bridgehouse said:

Brize said:

Junior if it's a Les Paul; Special if it's an SG.

Name, or shape?

Traditional understanding of the two types, leaving aside the 1958-1962 crossover period.

Ah ok. Only ask cos I have such a crossover Gibson weirdo.

LP DC shape. 1962. In the ledger as a SG Special.

Yep, I know your guitar - I played it at David Pym's and it's very nice.

I played his two SG Specials as well, and the SG Junior - the Specials were real nice, but something about this one just spoke to me. I reckon I play it 75% of the time on the neck pickup

Yep, I remember the neck pickup was particularly sweet on that guitar.

Just to clarify, when I refer to the crossover period, I'm referring to the double-cut Specials from 1958 to 1960 (actually up to 1962, as your guitar demonstrates) that were referred to as SGs in Gibson's marketing literature, and the 1961 to 1962 (actually 1963) SGs that had the Les Paul truss-rod cover.

The Les Paul name was removed from the Special quite early on in the double-cut era, but I believe I'm right in saying that your guitar actually has the Les Paul script on the headstock.