Junior or Special?

Teyeplayer · January 2017

Special, for the neck and mid position. Sweet sounds.

Bridgehouse · January 2017

Brize said:

Bridgehouse said:

Brize said:

Bridgehouse said:

Brize said:

Bridgehouse said:

Brize said:

Junior if it's a Les Paul; Special if it's an SG.

Name, or shape?

Traditional understanding of the two types, leaving aside the 1958-1962 crossover period.

Ah ok. Only ask cos I have such a crossover Gibson weirdo.

LP DC shape. 1962. In the ledger as a SG Special.

Yep, I know your guitar - I played it at David Pym's and it's very nice.

I played his two SG Specials as well, and the SG Junior - the Specials were real nice, but something about this one just spoke to me. I reckon I play it 75% of the time on the neck pickup

Yep, I remember the neck pickup was particularly sweet on that guitar.

Just to clarify, when I refer to the crossover period, I'm referring to the double-cut Specials from 1958 to 1960 (actually up to 1962, as your guitar demonstrates) that were referred to as SGs in Gibson's marketing literature, and the 1961 to 1962 (actually 1963) SGs that had the Les Paul truss-rod cover.

The Les Paul name was removed from the Special quite early on in the double-cut era, but I believe I'm right in saying that your guitar actually has the Les Paul script on the headstock.

It does indeed. Who knows if it's original. Gibson thought so but they couldn't tell for sure. Their guess was mine was a warranty replacement for a snapped neck 59

Brize · January 2017

Bridgehouse said:

Brize said:

Bridgehouse said:

Brize said:

Bridgehouse said:

Brize said:

Bridgehouse said:

Brize said:

Junior if it's a Les Paul; Special if it's an SG.

Name, or shape?

Traditional understanding of the two types, leaving aside the 1958-1962 crossover period.

Ah ok. Only ask cos I have such a crossover Gibson weirdo.

LP DC shape. 1962. In the ledger as a SG Special.

Yep, I know your guitar - I played it at David Pym's and it's very nice.

I played his two SG Specials as well, and the SG Junior - the Specials were real nice, but something about this one just spoke to me. I reckon I play it 75% of the time on the neck pickup

Yep, I remember the neck pickup was particularly sweet on that guitar.

Just to clarify, when I refer to the crossover period, I'm referring to the double-cut Specials from 1958 to 1960 (actually up to 1962, as your guitar demonstrates) that were referred to as SGs in Gibson's marketing literature, and the 1961 to 1962 (actually 1963) SGs that had the Les Paul truss-rod cover.

The Les Paul name was removed from the Special quite early on in the double-cut era, but I believe I'm right in saying that your guitar actually has the Les Paul script on the headstock.

It does indeed. Who knows if it's original. Gibson thought so but they couldn't tell for sure. Their guess was mine was a warranty replacement for a snapped neck 59

I'd be surprised if that were the case given the '59 pickup placement is quite different. I've seen one other '62 Special like yours, but it had a crown on the headstock instead of the script. I think it's more likely that they were just using up old parts once they'd fully transitioned to the SG shape.

Bridgehouse · January 2017

Brize said:

Bridgehouse said:

Brize said:

Bridgehouse said:

Brize said:

Bridgehouse said:

Brize said:

Bridgehouse said:

Brize said:

Junior if it's a Les Paul; Special if it's an SG.

Name, or shape?

Traditional understanding of the two types, leaving aside the 1958-1962 crossover period.

Ah ok. Only ask cos I have such a crossover Gibson weirdo.

LP DC shape. 1962. In the ledger as a SG Special.

Yep, I know your guitar - I played it at David Pym's and it's very nice.

I played his two SG Specials as well, and the SG Junior - the Specials were real nice, but something about this one just spoke to me. I reckon I play it 75% of the time on the neck pickup

Yep, I remember the neck pickup was particularly sweet on that guitar.

Just to clarify, when I refer to the crossover period, I'm referring to the double-cut Specials from 1958 to 1960 (actually up to 1962, as your guitar demonstrates) that were referred to as SGs in Gibson's marketing literature, and the 1961 to 1962 (actually 1963) SGs that had the Les Paul truss-rod cover.

The Les Paul name was removed from the Special quite early on in the double-cut era, but I believe I'm right in saying that your guitar actually has the Les Paul script on the headstock.

It does indeed. Who knows if it's original. Gibson thought so but they couldn't tell for sure. Their guess was mine was a warranty replacement for a snapped neck 59

I'd be surprised if that were the case given the '59 pickup placement is quite different. I've seen one other '62 Special like yours, but it had a crown on the headstock instead of the script. I think it's more likely that they were just using up old parts once they'd fully transitioned to the SG shape.

Ah, sorry I meant as in someone handed in a broken 59 and they gave them the 62 as a replacement - there's a Mark in the ledger or something - but now Gibson don't do scans I don't know exactly what it is...

Brize · January 2017

Bridgehouse said:

Brize said:

Bridgehouse said:

Brize said:

Bridgehouse said:

Brize said:

Bridgehouse said:

Brize said:

Bridgehouse said:

Brize said:

Junior if it's a Les Paul; Special if it's an SG.

Name, or shape?

Traditional understanding of the two types, leaving aside the 1958-1962 crossover period.

Ah ok. Only ask cos I have such a crossover Gibson weirdo.

LP DC shape. 1962. In the ledger as a SG Special.

Yep, I know your guitar - I played it at David Pym's and it's very nice.

I played his two SG Specials as well, and the SG Junior - the Specials were real nice, but something about this one just spoke to me. I reckon I play it 75% of the time on the neck pickup

Yep, I remember the neck pickup was particularly sweet on that guitar.

Just to clarify, when I refer to the crossover period, I'm referring to the double-cut Specials from 1958 to 1960 (actually up to 1962, as your guitar demonstrates) that were referred to as SGs in Gibson's marketing literature, and the 1961 to 1962 (actually 1963) SGs that had the Les Paul truss-rod cover.

The Les Paul name was removed from the Special quite early on in the double-cut era, but I believe I'm right in saying that your guitar actually has the Les Paul script on the headstock.

It does indeed. Who knows if it's original. Gibson thought so but they couldn't tell for sure. Their guess was mine was a warranty replacement for a snapped neck 59

I'd be surprised if that were the case given the '59 pickup placement is quite different. I've seen one other '62 Special like yours, but it had a crown on the headstock instead of the script. I think it's more likely that they were just using up old parts once they'd fully transitioned to the SG shape.

Ah, sorry I meant as in someone handed in a broken 59 and they gave them the 62 as a replacement - there's a Mark in the ledger or something - but now Gibson don't do scans I don't know exactly what it is...

Ah, I see - that's really interesting. Keep in mind that even SG Specials didn't have the Les Paul Special script on the headstock even though the SG Junior did. If your theory's correct I wonder if they made a new one up out of old parts to replace the broken 59 and forgot that a late double-cut Special wouldn't have had the script on the headstock. Sounds plausible to me.

ChrisMusic · January 2017

@miserneil said:

@Whitecat said:

The design of the P90s Gibson USA uses were changed in the 2015 model year. I am not sure if they remain different but they are not the same as the vintage-correct versions that Gibson Custom will use. They are not bad at all though.

Ah right, I didn't know that, ta! :-)

2015 "P90" is more like a Jag pickup, traditional style P90 bobbin round individual magnets for each string. Not sure if they still do that or not though.

2015 SC Junior
http://attrademusic.com/images/products_pictures/large/gibson-les-paul-junior-single-cut-2015-vss-elguitar-body-mahoganyneck-mahogany-p90casesunburst_www.attrademusic.com_lpjr15vssn1_220245-17.jpg

Bridgehouse · January 2017

Brize said:
Ah, I see - that's really interesting. Keep in mind that even SG Specials didn't have the Les Paul Special script on the headstock even though the SG Junior did. If your theory's correct I wonder if they made a new one up out of old parts to replace the broken 59 and forgot that a late double-cut Special wouldn't have had the script on the headstock. Sounds plausible to me.

The script is either a factory 'add on' (it's a little thicker than usual) or a later addition. Pots and pups are '59 so could possibly have been taken from the original '59 and transplanted as a parts job, or they were left over stock - but this is unlikely as they were making plenty of SG shaped specials in '62 with soap bars that date to '61 or '62.

TBH it's a head scratcher and I'll never know. It's certainly unique, and I like it for that.

Brize · January 2017

Bridgehouse said:

Brize said:
Ah, I see - that's really interesting. Keep in mind that even SG Specials didn't have the Les Paul Special script on the headstock even though the SG Junior did. If your theory's correct I wonder if they made a new one up out of old parts to replace the broken 59 and forgot that a late double-cut Special wouldn't have had the script on the headstock. Sounds plausible to me.

The script is either a factory 'add on' (it's a little thicker than usual) or a later addition. Pots and pups are '59 so could possibly have been taken from the original '59 and transplanted as a parts job, or they were left over stock - but this is unlikely as they were making plenty of SG shaped specials in '62 with soap bars that date to '61 or '62.

TBH it's a head scratcher and I'll never know. It's certainly unique, and I like it for that.

Even more interesting that the pots are from '59.

Bridgehouse · January 2017

Brize said:

Bridgehouse said:

Brize said:
Ah, I see - that's really interesting. Keep in mind that even SG Specials didn't have the Les Paul Special script on the headstock even though the SG Junior did. If your theory's correct I wonder if they made a new one up out of old parts to replace the broken 59 and forgot that a late double-cut Special wouldn't have had the script on the headstock. Sounds plausible to me.

The script is either a factory 'add on' (it's a little thicker than usual) or a later addition. Pots and pups are '59 so could possibly have been taken from the original '59 and transplanted as a parts job, or they were left over stock - but this is unlikely as they were making plenty of SG shaped specials in '62 with soap bars that date to '61 or '62.

TBH it's a head scratcher and I'll never know. It's certainly unique, and I like it for that.

Even more interesting that the pots are from '59.

Yeah. It is indeed interesting. If I were in the states I'd take it to the real cork sniffers for a good goggle of it, but that isn't going to happen

I like it, and I guess that's all that counts.

Exorcist · January 2017

Unless its changed, the P90 in the CS is the same pickup in the production model. AFAIK it certainly used to be.

Danielsguitars · January 2017

I'd say special unless you can have both

Neil · January 2017

ChrisMusic said:

@miserneil said:

@Whitecat said:

The design of the P90s Gibson USA uses were changed in the 2015 model year. I am not sure if they remain different but they are not the same as the vintage-correct versions that Gibson Custom will use. They are not bad at all though.

Ah right, I didn't know that, ta! :-)

2015 "P90" is more like a Jag pickup, traditional style P90 bobbin round individual magnets for each string. Not sure if they still do that or not though.

2015 SC Junior

No adjustment screws then?

Dave_Mc · January 2017

ICBM said:
Seriously, I do love the rawness of a Junior, but I always eventually miss the neck pickup, so for me it would be a Special.

Yeah ditto. Especially if it's the only P90 guitar you have.

ChrisMusic · January 2017

@Neil said:

ChrisMusic said:
2015 "P90" is more like a Jag pickup, traditional style P90 bobbin round individual magnets for each string. Not sure if they still do that or not though.

2015 SC Junior

No adjustment screws then?

No, the poles are actually the magnets, like on a Strat pickup. I think they were just used on the Made in USA Gibsons in 2015. Custom Shop would certainly be normal P90s. There have been other variants in the past, like P100s.

Traditional P90 type structure from StewMac
http://www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/i-5980/5980_diagram.gif

Not quite the Gibson 2015 P90, but similar construction (Gibson has P90 size coil AFAIK
http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server4400/9wqpckx/products/126/images/360/StratUnderP90cover__49989.1368473461.1280.1280.jpg

Wiki P90 page for more info:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-90

An interesting comparison of some single coil pickups here:
http://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/the-tone-garage/single-coils-from-a-golden-era