Deliberately timed or Coincidence?

Nikko · June 2016

I took the dog out last night, and when I got back, the wife was watching 'Benefits Britain' on tv. This particular episode, from what I could make out (I came back half way through), showed the story of a family that came here from a relatively poor background in Poland. Once they qualified for benefits here, the majority of the money was then sent back to Poland and allowed the family to open a business there.

Now, I don't pretend to be the most knowledgeable when it comes to Politics, and this upcoming referendum has me totally confused as to which way I should vote, but it occurred to me that ideally for the UK, this benefits money that we are paying out should go back into the UK economy? I appreciate it would be like trying to tell someone where they are and aren't allowed to spend their own money, but im fairly sure that the benefit would not be granted if it was known that it would end up the way it did in this specific story.

I have absolutely, no problems with people claiming for benefits that genuinely need it to help pay their bills/feed their families or if it helps those that physically are unable to work, but what I saw on that programme last night just struck me as a complete piss take.

Nice, deliberately timed bit of programme scheduling, or...

digitalscream · June 2016

Probably nothing to get the tin foil hats out over - just a way to get bigger ratings.

Incidentally...it does raise another point. If the benefits granted are set at an amount which allows the minimum acceptable standard of living, then how can that family survive while sending the majority back to Poland?

In the grand scheme of things, it's basically irrelevant anyway. Immigrants have been repeatedly and conclusively shown to be a net gain for the economy overall, so the odd one or two sending money back to Poland is no different to a notional born-and-bred Londoner who spends it all on weed and booze; the numbers of both are statistically insignificant.

Nikko · June 2016

Yeah, although I found it a piss take as I said, im definitely not in the 'Bloody foreigners coming over here taking our money/jobs' camp. Unfortunately, a lot of people that saw that last night, will be in that camp, and it could sway some of the ...erm...mis-informed among us.

Dominic · June 2016

Its only natural for immigrants to send money back to their homeland , -if you were working in Finland ,for example,you would send money back to UK rather than invest in Finland whether its wages or benefits

I have no particular feelings one way or the other about EU - but anybody who thinks that opting out will reduce migration is very naive ...........In many ways there is more cultural affinity with fellow Europeans but the newer waves of migration are coming from the Middle East ,Africa and Asia and have nothing to do with European trans-migration at all .

The immigrant issue is blurring the real economic facts for the man on the Clapham Omnibus.

mudslide73 · June 2016

I earn my money in Birmingham but spend it all in Staffordshire. Mainly on diesel obviously.

exocet · June 2016

We could always stop this practice by introducing capital controls? Of course that would be a terrible idea. Much More money leaves this country when we take our annual holidays.

octatonic · June 2016

digitalscream said:

Probably nothing to get the tin foil hats out over - just a way to get bigger ratings.

Incidentally...it does raise another point. If the benefits granted are set at an amount which allows the minimum acceptable standard of living, then how can that family survive while sending the majority back to Poland?

In the grand scheme of things, it's basically irrelevant anyway. Immigrants have been repeatedly and conclusively shown to be a net gain for the economy overall, so the odd one or two sending money back to Poland is no different to a notional born-and-bred Londoner who spends it all on weed and booze; the numbers of both are statistically insignificant.

Exactly this.

I frequently employ a Polish builder (because he turns up on time, doesn't moan and does great work).

With us both being migrants we've talked quite a bit about the cost of living here in the UK versus our countries of origin.

Yes, life in Poland is much cheaper but he has said several times that it has taken years for him to build up his business to even consider being able to send any money back at all.

What he's ended up doing is, much like ourselves, buying a house out in the countryside and staying put for quite a while.

Yes, he might end up cashing in at some stage and taking the money back to Poland- but he's already been here for 10 years, contributing to the economy, buying stuff, paying tax.

Most of the guys that he employs are in a worse position- they don't own businesses and basically live hand to mouth as labourers.

They don't send much money back to Poland- what they do is have jobs in the UK earning more than they would in Poland.

They are earning minimum wage working 6 days a week- London is an expensive place, even living 4 to a room they aren't sashing piles of cash away.

CabbageCat · June 2016

On the flipside I knew a guy whose dad exported the Gap franchise to Poland and made a mint from it, most of which came back to the UK. Money flows in all directions.

lloyd · June 2016

CabbageCat said:

On the flipside I knew a guy whose dad exported the Gap franchise to Poland and made a mint from it, most of which came back to the UK. Money flows in all directions.

Gotta exploit those gaps in the market.

digitalscream · June 2016

lloyd said:

CabbageCat said:

On the flipside I knew a guy whose dad exported the Gap franchise to Poland and made a mint from it, most of which came back to the UK. Money flows in all directions.

Gotta exploit those gaps in the market.

I'm not sure what your point is. Isn't that the way every business on the planet works?

lloyd · June 2016

digitalscream said:

lloyd said:

CabbageCat said:

On the flipside I knew a guy whose dad exported the Gap franchise to Poland and made a mint from it, most of which came back to the UK. Money flows in all directions.

Gotta exploit those gaps in the market.

I'm not sure what your point is. Isn't that the way every business on the planet works?

It's just a shit joke mate.

digitalscream · June 2016

Ah, I see. Carry on...

lloyd · June 2016

digitalscream said:

Ah, I see. Carry on...

Do I have to?

fields5069 · June 2016

Again, this just tells me that the system is buggered, not that immigration is a bad thing.

Fretwired · June 2016

digitalscream said:

In the grand scheme of things, it's basically irrelevant anyway. Immigrants have been repeatedly and conclusively shown to be a net gain for the economy overall, so the odd one or two sending money back to Poland is no different to a notional born-and-bred Londoner who spends it all on weed and booze; the numbers of both are statistically insignificant.

No so apparently. Show me some stats (not wanting to start an argument). The figures are flawed - a lot of migrants get in work benefits and pay very little in the way of tax. Now we need them because we need these low paid jobs doing. The problem is we are not training many of our young people to do these jobs.

It's far easier to employ a builder from Poland that to put up with a Brit straight out of college with little or no experience. I run a business networking group and this is the view of lots of local employers. Immigrants from Poland are well educated, speak English and have experience. Why wouldn't you want to employ them? And yes they send money home - I have a Polish plumber and he sends money home as he intends to return to Poland and set up a building company. Working in the UK will allow him to buy a house in Poland and set up his business - good luck to him I say.

Let's be honest about why we need immigrants (skills shortages), let's not demonise them, but let's not look through rose tinted glasses either. We need to be building more houses and infrastructure to accommodate the population growth. Cameron knowingly lied about his 100,000 limit on immigration and Leave are being disingenuous as I doubt immigration will fall that much, but at least we'd get a say on who comes into the UK.

digitalscream · June 2016

@Fretwired - I'll dig the stats out later, little busy right now. However, I very much doubt anything will change in terms of immigration if we leave - to be part of the EEC, there's an overwhelming chance that we'll have to accept free movement.

maltingsaudio · June 2016

Just to put the 100,000 limit into perspective for you 300,000 people will be at Glastonbury this weekend..... we've got no room?

Emp_Fab · June 2016

TUK UR JERRRRRBSSS !!!

Fretwired · June 2016

digitalscream said:

@Fretwired - I'll dig the stats out later, little busy right now. However, I very much doubt anything will change in terms of immigration if we leave - to be part of the EEC, there's an overwhelming chance that we'll have to accept free movement.

@digitalscream .. I agree no change on immigrants. I've seen various stats. I think Remain and Leave have agreed that migrants are now cost neutral. Both Cameron and Farage have said as much on the campaign.

digitalscream · June 2016

Fretwired said:

digitalscream said:

@Fretwired - I'll dig the stats out later, little busy right now. However, I very much doubt anything will change in terms of immigration if we leave - to be part of the EEC, there's an overwhelming chance that we'll have to accept free movement.

@digitalscream .. I agree no change on immigrants. I've seen various stats. I think Remain and Leave have agreed that migrants are now cost neutral. Both Cameron and Farage have said as much on the campaign.

I was just considering that - it's the first time you and I have agreed on anything to do with the referendum.

Actually, thinking about it...does anyone know what happens if it's a draw?

snakemanStoo · June 2016

digitalscream said:

Fretwired said:

digitalscream said:

@Fretwired - I'll dig the stats out later, little busy right now. However, I very much doubt anything will change in terms of immigration if we leave - to be part of the EEC, there's an overwhelming chance that we'll have to accept free movement.

@digitalscream .. I agree no change on immigrants. I've seen various stats. I think Remain and Leave have agreed that migrants are now cost neutral. Both Cameron and Farage have said as much on the campaign.

I was just considering that - it's the first time you and I have agreed on anything to do with the referendum.

Actually, thinking about it...what happens if it's a draw?

Penalty shoot out?

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Deliberately timed or Coincidence?

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