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The current state of society is not and cannot be evidence for why legalisation should be the way forward. The evidence would have to come from societies where it has been tried. Now with weed, there have been some successes. But that doesn't automatically translate to all drugs.
All in all, it's my opinion that each drug needs to be tested individually and on it's own merits and bases of evidence. That's the scientific approach.
Alcohol is not as dangerous as currently illegal drugs - what a preposterous claim. You can't lump all illegal drugs together like that. Is alcohol more dangerous than mushrooms?? Undoubtedly yes. Is it more dangerous than PCP or meth? Fuck no.
Finally, illegality is indeed an obstacle. In Camden in 2005 you used to be able to by all varities of magic mushrooms from as many head shops as you liked. Now? You can't. They were made illegal in 2008 iirc, because of concerns over psychosis reports. Not an unfounded concern at that. But it's much harder to get magic mushrooms now, even though they grow everywhere every year.
The same is true for heroin.
I mean.... the Brass Eye sketch kind of nails it really....
I mean.... if you really think society is going to be as peaceful and as productive and cohesive as it currently is (even if it isn't fully) in a world where all kinds of drugs are available at every shop.... then I think you might need to take a walk down Skid Row!!
People do drugs for a lot of reasons. But one of the main ones is to get fucked up.
This is a root truth. And it should inform everyone's view of drugs, whether they're pro or against.
Yes, people do drugs to get fucked up - that should be their choice, and if you want to minimise the harm to them and everyone else, the best way to do that is to take the criminality out of it.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
I don't think a lot of people are smart enough to know when they've gone too far, and they need protecting. I don't think everyone should have the choice to get fucked up, because getting fucked up has ramifications for the rest of society.
I have to chuckle though.... to solve criminality, just get rid of laws!!! That'll fix things!!
OK.
I don't have a problem with legalising things. But I do have a problem with the blanket statement that all drugs should be legalised without question. In my view it's a profoundly unreasoned thing to say, lacks scientific understanding and lacks the nuanced view of biology and the effects drugs have on society that is required to postulate a position, and all together is a bit too hammer to crack a walnut for me.
The Portugese model doesn’t really hit all the outcomes either. However, what they have done is to decriminalise the personal use of drugs ( including cannabis) so that these are health and social concerns. This stops the police and courts spending time on minor drug issues and means users don’t get criminal records. They are also more likely to be directed to addiction services than prison. The outcome is that Portugal has not had an increase in drug use as a result but has seen decreases in issues like drug related deaths and transmission of HIV through drug use. And far fewer people with criminal records for what are pretty minor matters.*
In effect in the U.K. was evolving to something like the Portugese model and that diversion to addiction services for minor drug matters is usually the first choice before criminal prosecution or to use criminal proceedings only to reinforce attendance. The U.K. could make a number of steps to go further down this line but it would need serious investment. However, funding for addiction services in the U.K. has been significantly cut in the last few years and that seems unlikely to go back up any time soon. I’m including alcohol services in that, a substance far more linked to criminal activity than any other drug.
The energy & cash should be used to help treat addicts with counselling and support.
I agree that just blanket unbanning all drugs feels wrong, but as its been shown that bans make no practical difference and just criminalise users (and those in certain racial groups in the US) it won't in reality lead to way more users.
It could be (no hard data unfortunately) that drug users are always a certain part of the population regardless of access eg US users of legal opiods may be people who will have otherwise have used illegal drugs anyway. My point being more about access and legality being a small factor (not about the ethics of a for profit drug pushing US medical culture) in the desire to be addicted.
https://scholarworks.gvsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1003&context=scjpeerpubs
This surprised me:
If people want to smoke it, that’s their choice as long as it doesn’t impact other people who don’t want anything to do with it.
While out for a ride on the bike yesterday I followed no less than five cars with the stench of the stuff bellowing out from the drivers side and they were all driving like divs. That is the shit that has to stop, simple as that.
The drive to ever stronger products is a direct and well documented result of prohibition since illegal suppliers are only concerned with profit and stronger product tends to cost more and provide better ROI against the high costs and risks of supply.
So a well regulated scheme where people can easily access weaker product just cuts out the harms and the cost to society.
The current strengths for skunk and weed are not down to prohibition. They're down to market demand. I'd like to see evidence that this market demand would somehow disappear. I don't see it happening.
I used to agree with ICBM that all drugs should be legalised and available to purchase by adults. I've espoused that view numerous times on this very forum over the years. But when I started analysing it, I realised that I just had, and still have, no evidence for it.
It felt good to say, because I'm pro-freedom and all that jazz. But the reality is, I don't have any evidence that society would be a better place to live in if all drugs were legalised and sat there on the top shelf.
One of my last professional tasks before I retired as a GP was to appear as a professional witness in the Crown Court trial of one of my young patients who had stabbed his girlfriend to death whilst heavily into Cannabis. The evil idiot who sold him his cannabis never got tried. Two lives ruined. A family destroyed. A young woman dead.
Cannabis is just not cool. And that's a massive understatement.
I don't even think it's really the rule that smokers are lazy. A lot of them are. But it's a stereotype that doesn't hold true all of the time.
But I agree, it isn't cool. Especially the older you get. I tend to think if you're in your mid 30's and you're still spending large amounts of your disposable time smoking weed instead of doing something productive, then you might need to have a word with yourself.
The market can demand what it wants but it’s only ever going to get what it’s given based on maximum yield and profit. I know people who would buy older, more natural varieties but can’t really get hold of them, because what criminal would produce something that makes less money because it takes 3 times as long to grow and yield half as much product.
Bit awkward when CID had to dust for prints in our downstairs hallway once (female housemate was attacked at 3am by some junkie) and we had plants growing one floor up.
One of the most dangerous drugs available in shops.
Can't see much excuse for banning other drugs while tobacco is legal.
All it does is mean that the only source of supply is criminal. The only people who benefit from the current model are criminals. (Well, you could argue that the police, prison officers and lawyers have more work, but they could be employed on other more useful areas of the law.)
Take the criminality out of it, regulate and tax the supply just like alcohol, and you would have some chance of dealing with the health problems in a rational way.
The ‘war on drugs’ is not only unwinnable, it’s actively counterproductive. All it does is put the profits in the hands of criminals, at the expense of everyone else.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein