Torn between two amps, help

guitarfishbay · October 2014

A 0% Credit card and PayPal could achieve the same thing on eBay though, if paying off in installments is what you want.

monquixote · October 2014

guitarfishbay said:

A 0% Credit card and PayPal could achieve the same thing on eBay though, if paying off in installments is what you want.

The man he speaks wisdom.

ICBM · October 2014

Bucket said:

I know Mesas are a rip-off here, but I know also that I want a Mesa and this is the easiest way I have of getting one.

I probably won't be looking at secondhand because this 0% finance thing is so much easier for me - I'd rather not blow a big wedge of money in one go, but given that I have a regular income every month I can afford to take a bit of that to pay for the amp in instalments. Hence why I'm after a new amp, and it does have to be a Mesa, I'm just not that interested in anything else.

So yes - Mark V 25, Express 5:25+ or possibly the Express 5:50+, plus a 1x12 with a Vintage 30 in it, is the plan.

In that case, get the Mark V 25. It's what you want, and it will always bother you if you get something else.

Don't get a 1x12" with a V30 - even a Mesa one. The V30 always sounds least good in a small 1x12". Get one of the cabs with a Black Shadow 90 instead - it's a much bigger-sounding speaker which works better in 1x12"s and will offset the low power of the amp to some extent.

prh777 · October 2014

The price differential is usually down to having distribution rights. That being said the UK distributor for mesa are West Side Music and markup is lit between them and mesa (ex vat etc). It's similar across Europe for mb products. I can't comment on the 5:25 but I run a mk v combo and put a fuzz pedal (Pumpkin Pi by Stomped Under Foot) though the clean channel and it is epic. I've also used a modded EHX Soul Food by @handsomerik and that worked very well for the warm, southern roots rock sound I like. The gain channels are Fiddly to dial in but rewarding as hell when it works. The mk v is great but completely exposes your sloppy playing, there is nowhere to hide as the distortion and gain is very tight and dry ( insert fnar here), makes me try to be a better player but it's not to everyone's taste. Appreciate some of this sounds like regurgitated webisphere knowledge but after playing through my Orange Jim Root terror again recently and "I" sounded awesome. It's just a more forgiving amp.

Bucket · October 2014

ICBM said:

Bucket said:

I know Mesas are a rip-off here, but I know also that I want a Mesa and this is the easiest way I have of getting one.

I probably won't be looking at secondhand because this 0% finance thing is so much easier for me - I'd rather not blow a big wedge of money in one go, but given that I have a regular income every month I can afford to take a bit of that to pay for the amp in instalments. Hence why I'm after a new amp, and it does have to be a Mesa, I'm just not that interested in anything else.

So yes - Mark V 25, Express 5:25+ or possibly the Express 5:50+, plus a 1x12 with a Vintage 30 in it, is the plan.
In that case, get the Mark V 25. It's what you want, and it will always bother you if you get something else.

Don't get a 1x12" with a V30 - even a Mesa one. The V30 always sounds least good in a small 1x12". Get one of the cabs with a Black Shadow 90 instead - it's a much bigger-sounding speaker which works better in 1x12"s and will offset the low power of the amp to some extent.

I've planned this around a Harley Benton 1x12 with a V30 already equipped, which seems like a good cab for the money (now wincing in anticipation of your reaction to this

)

Are Black Shadows available separately or do I have to pay through the nose for a Mesa cab?

RaymondLin · October 2014

How about this cab?

http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/22287/fs-mesa-boogie-wide-body-1-x-12-with-cover#latest

ICBM · October 2014

You can buy them separately, but still through the nose to some extent.

If you can get a cab with a Classic Lead 80, it will be close(ish) to a Black Shadow - it's not the same, but much closer than a V30. Not knowing your exact taste I could be wrong, but I would definitely avoid the V30 - I love them with Rectifier-type amps in 2x12"s or larger, but every Mesa 1x12" I've heard with a V30 has sounded excessively middy, shouty and directional.

guitarfishbay · October 2014

Black shadows are Mesa's version of the Classic Lead IIRC. So similarly to the V30 thing the Mesa speaker has a different voicing from the same family.

I honestly think Mesa cabs are worth it when you find them used even though they're still expensive then. I wish they were cheaper, but they do sound unique plus they're actually made well (you'd be surprised how many cabs I've owned which weren't - I have no idea why so many people can't make a box that doesn't rattle).

Bucket · October 2014

@RaymondLin That looks great but it's a lot more than I'd ideally be spending.

RaymondLin · October 2014

ICBM said:

You can buy them separately, but still through the nose to some extent.

If you can get a cab with a Classic Lead 80, it will be close(ish) to a Black Shadow - it's not the same, but much closer than a V30. Not knowing your exact taste I could be wrong, but I would definitely avoid the V30 - I love them with Rectifier-type amps in 2x12"s or larger, but every Mesa 1x12" I've heard with a V30 has sounded excessively middy, shouty and directional.

funnily enough, middy is the reason why I like V30 !

guitarfishbay · October 2014

Bucket said:

That looks great but it's a lot more than I'd ideally be spending.

It is your money, but objectively it seems crazy to take out a loan of over £1k for an amp but then not take the same care over cab selection.

If you get the chance, test the head through multiple cabs in store and see what you think.

guitarfishbay · October 2014

RaymondLin said:

ICBM said:

You can buy them separately, but still through the nose to some extent.

If you can get a cab with a Classic Lead 80, it will be close(ish) to a Black Shadow - it's not the same, but much closer than a V30. Not knowing your exact taste I could be wrong, but I would definitely avoid the V30 - I love them with Rectifier-type amps in 2x12"s or larger, but every Mesa 1x12" I've heard with a V30 has sounded excessively middy, shouty and directional.

funnily enough, middy is the reason why I like V30 !

Same, but I think the increased volume of the 2x12 and 4x12 enclosures round them off better. I had an Orange PPC112 and found it a bit too shouty and narrow sounding for my tastes. It is quite a small cab though, I've never tried a larger V30 1x12 cab to compare.

RaymondLin · October 2014

guitarfishbay said:

RaymondLin said:

ICBM said:

You can buy them separately, but still through the nose to some extent.

If you can get a cab with a Classic Lead 80, it will be close(ish) to a Black Shadow - it's not the same, but much closer than a V30. Not knowing your exact taste I could be wrong, but I would definitely avoid the V30 - I love them with Rectifier-type amps in 2x12"s or larger, but every Mesa 1x12" I've heard with a V30 has sounded excessively middy, shouty and directional.

funnily enough, middy is the reason why I like V30 !

Same, but I think the increased volume of the 2x12 and 4x12 enclosures round them off better. I had an Orange PPC112 and found it a bit too shouty and narrow sounding for my tastes. It is quite a small cab though, I've never tried a larger V30 1x12 cab to compare.

I only have a Bogner Cube so relatively a small cab. My house isn't very big and a semi so not ready for a 4x12 yet !!! one day I will.

ICBM · October 2014

guitarfishbay said:

Black shadows are Mesa's version of the Classic Lead IIRC. So similarly to the V30 thing the Mesa speaker has a different voicing from the same family.

Not quite - technically it's Mesa's version of the older G12-80, which is slightly different. It has a vented magnet and a chunkier, slightly darker tone. Same family though, yes - kind of a 'parallel evolution' to the CL80.

RaymondLin said:
funnily enough, middy is the reason why I like V30 !

Same here, but it seems to need more space. In 1x12"s - especially small ones, especially open-back and front-loaded most of all, it gets very shouty and beamy as well. It's also one of the few speakers that really does need to be given bit of power to start to open up a bit - amps with a lot of bottom-end will do it, but otherwise it can sound a bit stiff at low volume.

RaymondLin said:
I only have a Bogner Cube so relatively a small cab. My house isn't very big and a semi so not ready for a 4x12 yet !!! one day I will.

That's a ported cab though - that also helps open up the sound of the V30… gives it more bottom end and takes away some of the stiffness.

ThePrettyDamned · October 2014

@bucket if you're doing it on finance, you owe it to yourself to try it through a bunch of cabs.

If it means saving up for another month to drop more money on the deposit and reduce the monthly cost a bit, I say it's worth it. You take your playing seriously and you won't regret it

Drew_TNBD · October 2014

I'd just say try before you buy. I went to Andertons nigh on dead set on buying a Triple Rectifier. I came away thinking "okay, well now I need to go and buy something else...." and that was when I bought the Fryette. This was back in 2010 or 11, when I was looking for an all singing all dancing multi-channel amp.

At the moment you know you definitely want Mesa. But you could try one of these 25-watt Mark V's and hate it. Make sure you compare it to something with a bit more wattage behind it, so you know what you're missing. I used to gig with a Dual Terror, and was quite content... but then I started to miss the balls of a huge amp, and when I compared it with a bigger amp the Dual Terror just had to be sold. Even at the same volumes, the bigger amp had more balls. I forget which amp it was... I think it was the modded JCM900 I had borrowed from a friend for a while.

Bucket · October 2014

I definitely, definitely want a Mesa, ideally just a two-channel one with an EQ - the features and flexibility of those models are exactly what I'm after (not to mention that I've always just loved Mesas). I'll see if I can try a bigger one too, maybe the 50w Express, just to see what the difference is - and through as many cabs as I can. And with my board, to make sure my fuzz behaves.

I'm not totally convinced I really do need loads of watts, but I definitely see your point Drew. What's the harm in trying?

chrispy108 · October 2014

guitarfishbay said:

A 0% Credit card and PayPal could achieve the same thing on eBay though, if paying off in installments is what you want.

This.

You'd have to be a nutter to buy a new Mesa.

Look at the amount going unsold on ebay at really good prices. It's a buyers market.

I understand the desire for a Mesa, but don't narrow down a huge decision based on brand. Go play stuff.

ICBM · October 2014

chrispy108 said:

guitarfishbay said:

A 0% Credit card and PayPal could achieve the same thing on eBay though, if paying off in installments is what you want.

This.

You'd have to be a nutter to buy a new Mesa.

Look at the amount going unsold on ebay at really good prices. It's a buyers market.

I understand the desire for a Mesa, but don't narrow down a huge decision based on brand. Go play stuff.

I understand the desire for one over any other brand even - they have a feature set and voicing which is very difficult to find in any other amp, and far above average build quality - but I still wouldn't buy one new. The only way Mesa/Westside will learn that people don't like being ripped off, and reduce their markup to the industry norm, is from the size of their stock of unsold Mesas. Don't fall for it.

meltedbuzzbox · October 2014

If you are after a great clean and an added bonus of a dirt channel have you considered a Fender hot rod deville?

40watt, reasonably light, 1x12, loud as a mofo etc and the best bit is that there is an abundance of them for £300 used.

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Torn between two amps, help

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