DIY top replacement (started off intending to be a neck reset) * Now finished and playable again :)

WezV · February 2015

easier to get blanks here and make them yourself

http://www.tonetechluthiersupplies.co.uk/guitar-tonewood-timber/internal-wood/spruce-bracing-acoustic-guitar.html

or give david dyke a call

http://luthierssupplies.co.uk/

DartmoorHedgehog · February 2015

I originally thought about making my own when I thought they were just flat, but aren't they supposed to be very slightly curved? I'm not sure if my woodworking skill is up to making such a subtle curve.

WezV · February 2015

Most are slightly curved, but more so on the back.

You can just make the top flat for ease, works fine.

DartmoorHedgehog · February 2015

Cool, thanks Wez. Flat I think I can cope with

I'll get some wood for those then, and carry on attacking the old binding...

DartmoorHedgehog · February 2015

Binding and top off

Now to make the new top...

WezV · March 2015

I would copy that bracing pattern pretty closely, but maybe beef up the bridge patch

i would also consider using a make shift go-bar deck for clamping. my first one used bamboo and i used a table with some weights on it to act as the top of the deck. the bamboo marked the braces a bit but gave really good clamping pressure

DartmoorHedgehog · March 2015

WezV said:

I would copy that bracing pattern pretty closely, but maybe beef up the bridge patch

I was going to make the ones around the sound hole thicker as well, as that's where the worst of the distortion was. To you think that's a good idea?

WezV said:

i would also consider using a make shift go-bar deck for clamping. my first one used bamboo and i used a table with some weights on it to act as the top of the deck. the bamboo marked the braces a bit but gave really good clamping pressure

Yes, I was going to pinch that idea after you mentioned it earlier

Got plenty of canes and a heavy desk that should be ideal for that. Thanks again for the hints - much appreciated.

DartmoorHedgehog · March 2015

Had a bit of time this weekend. New top cut out

The bit of spruce I bought had a few scratches in it from being in storage for three decades since the previous owner bought it (it was cheap because of that). I thought I didn't care about the odd mark for this project, but got fussy and ended up rubbing it all down to remove the scratches. Slightly tired arm now, but worth the effort I reckon.

It's cut slightly over-size for now so I can file it down the last bit after it's glued on. Bracing wood should be here next week...

chrispy108 · March 2015

Awesome looking work @DartmoorHedgehog

DartmoorHedgehog · March 2015

Thanks @chrispy108. This is the first time I've tried anything like this on a proper guitar. I took a ukulele apart a few years ago and did a neck reset and refinish, which came out well, but this is slightly more scary. I'm quite pleased with how it's going so far with my limited woodworking experience and tools.

Andyjr1515 · March 2015

That's looking great @DartmoorHedgehog ! Looks a nice piece of wood. Ref your earlier question, I wouldn't beef up round the sound hole, but make sure what wood you use is the correct stuff. David Dyke (I think I remember) does a set of the right woods for the right braces. I agree with @WezV that the bridge plate prob needs to be a little beefier (I think DD supplies those too)

DartmoorHedgehog · March 2015

Thanks @Andyjr1515. I bought the wood for bracing and bridge plate from David Dyke, so it should be good. (Cost me a bit more than I was expecting because he sneakily quoted prices ex vat and postage charge was massive, but at least I know I've got the right stuff). I'll make all the braces a tad thicker than the originals I think, but only a bit, and make the bridge plate a bit bigger.

One thing I haven't decided on yet is what to do with the finish on the sides. Obviously there will be a gap where the binding was, so I could either fill that with something or round the edges slightly to blend it in with the top (that's the preferred method at the moment I think). The tidiest thing to do would be to take all the old finish off, but it's going to take an epic amount of sanding to do the whole guitar I reckon - it's quite hard stuff, and I'm reluctant to use heat and scraper on an acoustic body. Perhaps a compromise would be to rub down just the sides and leave the original finish on the back, but then I'd like to do the neck with something less glossy as well... Perhaps I'm getting drawn into this too much!

Andyjr1515 · March 2015

Hi, @DartmoorHedgehog

Yes - don't use heat on an acoustic. Also. don't thicken the braces too much - do a search in terms of the 'normal' brace width...it makes a BIG difference to the tone. Also, as @WezV says, the shape of the braces, inluding the nodes, do too. The bridge plate doesn't affect the tone much because that is where the vibration is originating, but the rest of the top, including the braces, is where all of the harmonics are generated.

If I get a moment, I'll dig out some links...as you are doing all of the bulk of the work anyway, you may as well add the subtle things that make ALL the difference to the tone

As you will already have a binding step in the body, couldn't you put some binding on? You seem to be pretty handy with everything else

DartmoorHedgehog · March 2015

Hmm.. OK, I was only thinking of beefing up the braces slightly because it was just not stiff enough before to survive being tuned to normal pitch. I've always tuned it to D with extra-light 9-43 strings, and even then it tried to fold up. With the strings removed it went flat again within minutes, so it seems the wood wasn't actually warped, just too flexible. Presumably by "nodes" you mean the cut out bits in the middle of the braces - I was going to leave those out in order to add more strength, but perhaps I shouldn't.

TBH, the most important outcome of this project is that I end up with a guitar that's stable enough to be tuned to full pitch, but obviously I don't want it to sound terrible as a result of my over-engineering

I'm not sure about binding... I suppose I could put some sort of binding back on, but I'd still have the problem of tidying up the edge of the old finish and blending in with the new, unless I remove the finish from the sides. I scored the finish around the binding but it still chipped a bit in places when taking the old binding off - it's not really a nice clean edge. But I agree that putting some binding back is probably not that much more effort given that the channel is already there in the sides, and I'm going to have to file down the edges of the top to fit whether I use binding or not. Presumably any sort of flexible plastic would do for binding rather than having to get "proper" stuff. The original binding was multi-layered, but only the outside layer actually went down into the guitar side (the rest of it was just inlayed into the top like the sound hole rosette) so the "easy" option would be just to replace the single outer binding with a thin strip.

WezV · March 2015

the way i see it you could go two ways.

1) do everything as properly as possible. carve and radius the braces fully and accurately and make it as good as you possibly can before tap tuning etc.... it will take extra time and resources to do it and probably cost a bit more, but there is no reason you can't get really good results doing this

2) do it as a quick fun learning project. go for a flat top and relatively square braces roughly following the right dimensions. it will be quicker, easier and chances are it will work bloody well and sound better than a lot of guitars worth more just for using better materials. it may be quieter if overbraced, and it will look rougher inside - but it will give a quick rewards and probably tempt you to try something more intricate

sometimes its fun to just chuck a guitar without worrying about luthier porn quality pictures

you can use what you want for binding, but you can generally get binding strips pretty cheap on ebay

Andyjr1515 · March 2015

DartmoorHedgehog said:

TBH, the most important outcome of this project is that I end up with a guitar that's stable enough to be tuned to full pitch, but obviously I don't want it to sound terrible as a result of my over-engineering

@WezV is quite right. And, whatever, it won't sound terrible...I think you will be pleased how good it will sound even with square braces

DartmoorHedgehog · March 2015

Thanks again Wez and Andy. I'm aiming somewhere in between the two extremes. I want to make a decent job of it, and I want to be able to use the guitar after I've finished (that was the point), so I don't want to take any shortcuts that will seriously affect the sound. And I want it to look half decent otherwise I'd be annoyed with myself for being lazy every time I play it

(hence why I'm thinking of rubbing the old finish of the sides). But my woodworking skills and tools are limited, so things like making the braces flat rather than curved is likely to turn out better in the end - less chance of cocking up. I've got saws, plane and chisels though, so I should be able to make the braces reasonably close to the shape of proper ones, even if I leave them straight - I wouldn't be happy with myself if I just used square sticks - even on the ukulele I rounded the edges off.

I'll probably have a go at some simple binding while I'm at it, as the channel is already there in the side.

There's one thing I intend to do that may or may not be considered a bodge. The new top is a bit thicker than the old one by a mm or so, which means the fretboard would not sit flat on the neck. The proper way to address this I assume would be to make the top thinner or to make the sides lower, either of which I reckon would be a can of worms with my tools and experience. Instead I'm going to file a step in the underside of the fretboard to clear the thicker top - I can do that easily and I can't see any disadvantages except that obviously the bridge saddle will have to be a mm lower, but that'll need setting anyway with the new top.

The bracing wood has arrived now, so hopefully more progress should be made at the weekend

I can't see myself getting into doing this as a hobby (I'm more into playing with bits of cars than wood), but I'm enjoying having a go.

DartmoorHedgehog · March 2015

Main three braces made

I've made them just a bit thicker than the originals, just to err on the "strong enough" side, but hopefully not overdoing it. They look half decent for a first attempt I reckon.

I think I'll try to set up a go-bar rig under a desk tomorrow and stick them on, then get on with making the bridge plate and skinny braces.

WezV · March 2015

good work!!

that looks to be a nice bit if spruce you have for the top

DartmoorHedgehog · March 2015

Thanks @WezV. It is quite a nice-looking piece of wood - the other side is even better. Nice visible grain. I'm planning on staining it with ink using @Andyjr1515's method, hopefully should look more interesting than a normal plain top.

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories

In this Discussion

Become a Subscriber!

DIY top replacement (started off intending to be a neck reset) * Now finished and playable again :)

Comments