About bloody time too !

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  • BoromedicBoromedic Frets: 1016
    Maybe for balance, some of you should try putting yourselves in the polices shoes? I've seen both sides of the coin, it's not cut and dried or black and white. Yes I've seen cops being dicks, I've been on the receiving end of it before. That being said I wouldn't do their job for a kings ransom either. 

    .....and what to my wondering eyes should appear.....      nothing.......


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  • DominicDominic Frets: 4094
    Yeah.............knocking mopeds over........it could be some poor Traffic Warden..........Oh ,just realised that's just another kind of mugger ( inner London people will know what I mean )
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  • PC_DavePC_Dave Frets: 1514
    edited December 4
    Didn’t take long...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-46440172

    The Officer could be charged with GBH. 

    I cant even be bothered anymore. This country can do one.
    This week's procrastination forum might be moved to sometime next week.
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 14670
    Could be.

    Don't let the media jerk you around. 
    Parachutes are great, for dogs and Frenchmen. 
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  • BoromedicBoromedic Frets: 1016
    Ridiculous, we don't even have enough police officers, these bullshit charges make retention of the current lot even more difficult. 

    .....and what to my wondering eyes should appear.....      nothing.......


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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 18160
    edited December 4
    Sporky said:
    Boromedic said:
    Here's a question, how many of those against these kind of tactics, have been on the receiving end of criminal behaviour? 
    And for balance, how many who are in favour of the police using cars as weapons have ever witnessed the police being dicks? 

    Or maybe we stick to discussing the topic, not each other? 
    I'm actually with @Emp_Fab on this and personally I think the police should carry a sledgehammer to smash the craniums of these delinquents and remove them from the gene pool.

    However back to the real world. The police don't just drive round knocking people off scooters to see if they can fit them up. It's a way of ending a dangerous pursuit. The police will put on the lights and sirens and an innocent scooter rider will stop. The criminals will run and start a dangerous pursuit.

    Check on the scooter crime stats. Even Savid Javid was robbed. Since these tactics have been introduced scooter crime has fallen, although the criminals have moved elsewhere. Lawlessness is on the rise driven by Eastern European gangs (my neighbour and his wife were Met Officers).
    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • snakemanStoosnakemanStoo Frets: 1531
    I thought that any time a police officer caused injury to a civilian there had to be an investigation by the PCC.

    I could be wrong, it's been a while since I paid attention.
    PSN id : snakey33stoo
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  • merlinmerlin Frets: 1558
    Judge Dredd returns. 
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  • martmart Frets: 2892
    Fretwired said:
    ...
    However back to the real world. The police don't just drive round knocking people off scooters to see if they can fit them up. It's a way of ending a dangerous pursuit. ...
    That may be your perception, but many of us have been led to a much less positive view of the police as a result of our interactions with certain police officers.
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 18160
    mart said:
    Fretwired said:
    ...
    However back to the real world. The police don't just drive round knocking people off scooters to see if they can fit them up. It's a way of ending a dangerous pursuit. ...
    That may be your perception, but many of us have been led to a much less positive view of the police as a result of our interactions with certain police officers.
    Yawn. If the police car doesn't have flashing lights and a siren and then knocks someone off a scooter they are breaking the law.  The scooter rider has to be running from the police.

    What's the alternative? Crime is out of control in the UK and police are pretty much hampered.
    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • King85King85 Frets: 46
    Sporky said:
    Shrews said:

    The tiny % will win when a police car paralyses one of the moped thieves. 

    No. No-one wins when that happens  which is why it is right for the tactic to be investigated, and used if/where appropriate.
    I can't understand the logic of this comments like this, they're not stealing a loaf of bread to feed their starving family. They're attacking innocent people currently without any recourse and endangering others in the process of doing so. 

    If one of these scum are killed its no loss to society, if they run over someone minding their own business and kill them then that's the tragedy. 
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  • MyrandaMyranda Frets: 2728
    King85 said:
    Sporky said:
    Shrews said:

    The tiny % will win when a police car paralyses one of the moped thieves. 

    No. No-one wins when that happens  which is why it is right for the tactic to be investigated, and used if/where appropriate.
    I can't understand the logic of this comments like this, they're not stealing a loaf of bread to feed their starving family. They're attacking innocent people currently without any recourse and endangering others in the process of doing so. 

    If one of these scum are killed its no loss to society, if they run over someone minding their own business and kill them then that's the tragedy. 
    If they were stealing bread would you be satisfied with just shattering their kneecaps? Perhaps dismemberment? 

    I would just like to ascertain the level of bloodlust that would satisfy the baying crowds. After all you clearly think a system of laws is a waste of time and long for a wild west/mad max style of might makes right, but I'm curious what level of violence you think is appropriate to what crime? 

    Fail to stop at a red light - lose a finger? 
    Credit card fraud - eyes pecked out by crows?
    Software piracy - stomach filled with rabid rats? 

    Perhaps every legal transgression - death. No trial, no right of appeal... Just death
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  • munckeemunckee Frets: 2100
    Myranda said:
    King85 said:
    Sporky said:
    Shrews said:

    The tiny % will win when a police car paralyses one of the moped thieves. 

    No. No-one wins when that happens  which is why it is right for the tactic to be investigated, and used if/where appropriate.
    I can't understand the logic of this comments like this, they're not stealing a loaf of bread to feed their starving family. They're attacking innocent people currently without any recourse and endangering others in the process of doing so. 

    If one of these scum are killed its no loss to society, if they run over someone minding their own business and kill them then that's the tragedy. 
    If they were stealing bread would you be satisfied with just shattering their kneecaps? Perhaps dismemberment? 

    I would just like to ascertain the level of bloodlust that would satisfy the baying crowds. After all you clearly think a system of laws is a waste of time and long for a wild west/mad max style of might makes right, but I'm curious what level of violence you think is appropriate to what crime? 

    Fail to stop at a red light - lose a finger? 
    Credit card fraud - eyes pecked out by crows?
    Software piracy - stomach filled with rabid rats? 

    Perhaps every legal transgression - death. No trial, no right of appeal... Just death
    Its also fair to say that the system of laws you are defending fails to provide justice for the majority of crimes.  Police unable to even attend the majority of crimes let alone attempt to do anything about them.  Its fairly clear that they are not knocking moped riders off as a form of punishment but as a tactic to arrest criminals who were abusing the previous tactics to escape.  Those who are knocked off then get their full legal rights.

    Yes a moped rider may get injured, but a fleeing criminal on foot might run in front of a bus, your logic suggests the human rights of criminals should come first and police should not chase them.
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  • robgilmorobgilmo Frets: 1695
    Wot Bruv Wot Wot WHAT NOW PUSSYOLE..CRUNCH.. ..MUMMYYYYyyy!!......SPLAT...

    I feel sorry for the disaffected yoof of today, its societys fault innit..
    Quite possibly , over crowded, underfunded schools, no chance of ever owning a home, shit wages, no opportunities,  an education system that favours the rich, parents whose lives are filled with so many problems they cant cope or function as parents properly, irreversible environmental issues, food banks, poverty, kids with no food on their table while a footballer buys another island, I know I feel sorry for my kids what with the state of the shitty world we are leaving behind for them to try and make some sense out of.
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  • DominicDominic Frets: 4094
    edited December 5
    It's also possible that the hoodie running down the road with a flailing machete is running late and in a hurry to get to the local Church Volunteer group who are clearing some overgrown waste ground to turn it into a children's play area !
     Liberal Apologists get real here....
     If you have actually seen first hand the viciousness and aggression involved in these type of muggings and assaults you would be scared to walk down the road......really..;.these feral street rats are completely out of control and incredibly vicious and they have hit on a winner by using mopeds and scooters as the perfect escape tool
     So , local bobbies should blow their whistles and proclaim "Stop Thief ..in the name of the Law " and the kids involved will stop in their tracks " ok Guvnor,it's a fair cop " I don't think so. They are more likely to stab a police officer or slash him with a machete .
     It is a shame that such radical tactics are to be used and sad that society has degenerated to the extent where the only way to fight fire is with fire ......I'm sure that one day there will be some sonic wave stun gun or faze 'set to stun ' but in the meantime there would seem to be little or no other way of trying to keep normal people safe from these bastards and ultimately the protection of the majority of society must prevail.
    If there was a viable alternative I'm sure it would be in practice but it seems that there isn't ....of course ,in many countries they would be taken down with both barrels of a Police shotgun which is totally effective but a step too far.

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  • robgilmorobgilmo Frets: 1695
    Fretwired said:
    Sporky said:
    Boromedic said:
    Here's a question, how many of those against these kind of tactics, have been on the receiving end of criminal behaviour? 
    And for balance, how many who are in favour of the police using cars as weapons have ever witnessed the police being dicks? 

    Or maybe we stick to discussing the topic, not each other? 
    I'm actually with @Emp_Fab on this and personally I think the police should carry a sledgehammer to smash the craniums of these delinquents and remove them from the gene pool.

    However back to the real world. The police don't just drive round knocking people off scooters to see if they can fit them up. It's a way of ending a dangerous pursuit. The police will put on the lights and sirens and an innocent scooter rider will stop. The criminals will run and start a dangerous pursuit.

    Check on the scooter crime stats. Even Savid Javid was robbed. Since these tactics have been introduced scooter crime has fallen, although the criminals have moved elsewhere. Lawlessness is on the rise driven by Eastern European gangs (my neighbour and his wife were Met Officers).
    So, potentially killing someone is a justified punishment for suspicion of stealing a hand bag? 
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  • robgilmorobgilmo Frets: 1695
    Dominic said:
    It's also possible that the hoodie running down the road with a flailing machete is running late and in a hurry to get to the local Church Volunteer group who are clearing some overgrown waste ground to turn it into a children's play area !
     Liberal Apologists get real here....
     If you have actually seen first hand the viciousness and aggression involved in these type of muggings and assaults you would be scared to walk down the road......really..;.these feral street rats are completely out of control and incredibly vicious and they have hit on a winner by using mopeds and scooters as the perfect escape tool
     So , local bobbies should blow their whistles and proclaim "Stop Thief ..in the name of the Law " and the kids involved will stop in their tracks " ok Guvnor,it's a fair cop " I don't think so. They are more likely to stab a police officer or slash him with a machete .
     It is a shame that such radical tactics are to be used and sad that society has degenerated to the extent where the only way to fight fire is with fire ......I'm sure that one day there will be some sonic wave stun gun or faze 'set to stun ' but in the meantime there would seem to be little or no other way of trying to keep normal people safe from these bastards and ultimately the protection of the majority of society must prevail.
    If there was a viable alternative I'm sure it would be in practice but it seems that there isn't ....of course ,in many countries they would be taken down with both barrels of a Police shotgun which is totally effective but a step too far.


    The not so  viable alternative would be to sort out or society, education , housing, poverty, healthcare but to name a few, we seem to forget what an actual society is.
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  • King85King85 Frets: 46
    Myranda said:
    King85 said:
    Sporky said:
    Shrews said:

    The tiny % will win when a police car paralyses one of the moped thieves. 

    No. No-one wins when that happens  which is why it is right for the tactic to be investigated, and used if/where appropriate.
    I can't understand the logic of this comments like this, they're not stealing a loaf of bread to feed their starving family. They're attacking innocent people currently without any recourse and endangering others in the process of doing so. 

    If one of these scum are killed its no loss to society, if they run over someone minding their own business and kill them then that's the tragedy. 
    If they were stealing bread would you be satisfied with just shattering their kneecaps? Perhaps dismemberment? 

    I would just like to ascertain the level of bloodlust that would satisfy the baying crowds. After all you clearly think a system of laws is a waste of time and long for a wild west/mad max style of might makes right, but I'm curious what level of violence you think is appropriate to what crime? 

    Fail to stop at a red light - 

    C
    lose a finger? redit card fraud - eyes pecked out by crows?
    Software piracy - stomach filled with rabid rats? 

    Perhaps every legal transgression - death. No trial, no right of appeal... Just death
    It's a system of law that doesn't get to be put into practice though as prior to knocking them off there was no way of identifying or apprehending them?

    There's no blood lust involved however if this is the only means of catching them then there's the risk injury could occur and that's solely on the head of those that are knowingly going out to commit these crimes. Play stupid games and win stupid prizes.

    You've misconstrued what i've said to be "kill them all" which clearly isn't what i've said.

    If they were stealing a loaf of bread to feed their starving family then I think a sympathetic understand could be given and a more obvious understanding of where these individuals have been failed by the state  but that's not the case, this is crime by choice to satisfy their want of quick and easy money.
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  • DominicDominic Frets: 4094
    That's the point ......."not so viable "........society will always be challenged by something and it's great to fix them ;no doubt the solution but a lot of muggings will happen in the meantime because those things don't change quickly
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  • p90foolp90fool Frets: 9291
    I have always passionately believed in minding my own business and letting other people get on with theirs. 

    Stealing a handbag might be a trivial crime in the grand scheme of things, but it's seriously upsetting to someone who was just getting on with their own day, and any punishment meted out to someone caught in the act is justified IMO, including a hideous death. 

    Just leave other people alone, it's that simple. 

    My objection to Draconian punishment has only ever been that in a court of law it's often only based on a likelihood of guilt. Anyone who's caught red handed is fair game as far as I'm concerned, I really think people have just had enough of little fucking toerags everywhere. 
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  • DefaultMDefaultM Frets: 1981
    edited December 5
    Meh. These are people who've decided that they don't have to follow the rules, and that they can harm others as they see fit. Ideally they'd be identified, taken in to a room, examined, someone would say "yep, this one's broken", then bolt gun to the head, problem solved.

    If it's clear they're in the process of committing a crime and trying to escape, I don't think id lose much sleep knowing they might get knocked off a scooter in the process.

    Criminals were recently observing my family's routine in order to break in to our house while we were out.
    The stupid bastards didn't observe well enough though. If they did they'd know my wife is disabled and often can't make it in to work.
    So they turned up on a Tuesday afternoon when she should be at work, but she was in the house with the kids. She watched them through the net curtains, stood about 6 inches from them. Got a full description, took a video of them circling the house, then when they started trying to pry open the backdoor with a crowbar she put her head out the window and screamed WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU THINK YOU'RE DOING?!
    She said you could hear the car skidding all over the place as they tried to get away. 

    What would they do if they got in and realised my wife and kids were in there? I'd hope that they'd leave, but you don't know. They could have killed them all and id come home to an emptied out house and a dead family.
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 14670
    King85 said:
    Sporky said:
    Shrews said:

    The tiny % will win when a police car paralyses one of the moped thieves. 

    No. No-one wins when that happens  which is why it is right for the tactic to be investigated, and used if/where appropriate.
    I can't understand the logic of this comments like this, they're not stealing a loaf of bread to feed their starving family. They're attacking innocent people currently without any recourse and endangering others in the process of doing so. 
    Did you read the comment I responded to, and my comment?

    Shrews was suggesting that some liberal bogeyman would be delighted if the police paralysed a moped thief (presumably in a "told you so" vein?). I was suggesting that no-one was going to be happy about someone getting paralysed.

    The logic is pretty clear to me. Appropriate engagement by the police and justice system - good. Paralysing people - not good.

    Are you perhaps thinking that I said to let the moped thieves carry on without fear of repercussion? I did not say that. You can check my post.
    Parachutes are great, for dogs and Frenchmen. 
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 14670
    Dominic said:
    It's also possible that the hoodie running down the road with a flailing machete is running late and in a hurry to get to the local Church Volunteer group who are clearing some overgrown waste ground to turn it into a children's play area !
     Liberal Apologists get real here....
    I think there's a certain irony in the juxtaposition of a hysterical straw-man argument with a call for an imagined bogeyman to "get real".
    Parachutes are great, for dogs and Frenchmen. 
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  • munckeemunckee Frets: 2100
    Sporky said:
    Dominic said:
    It's also possible that the hoodie running down the road with a flailing machete is running late and in a hurry to get to the local Church Volunteer group who are clearing some overgrown waste ground to turn it into a children's play area !
     Liberal Apologists get real here....
    I think there's a certain irony in the juxtaposition of a hysterical straw-man argument with a call for an imagined bogeyman to "get real".
    We need a new fret for word of the day, haven't used juxtaposition since I was in art class.
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  • webrthomsonwebrthomson Frets: 393

    Once the police have indicated that you are to stop, you stop, end of! Since it’s technically resisting arrest if you don’t then police are entitled to take whatever measures they think are necessary to apprehend the culprit and protect the public. That means anything from applying handcuffs to shooting the offender. When violence is used there are routine investigation that the level of violence was needed, as in this case.

    However, it’s not up to the police to safe guard the offender, indeed it is the responsibility of every individual to live with the choices they make, irrespective of circumstance, these don’t get deferred to anyone other than the individual making them.

    If you don’t want to get arrested, hit by a police car or shot by the police then don’t commit crimes. If you are going to commit violent crimes on unsuspecting members of the public then you have chosen to run the risk that the police might well respond to your actions violence back, if you are surprised by that then you are not only a criminal but intensely stupid.

    I find it somewhat surprising there are no bleeding-heart comments for the poor members of the public that have been assaulted, deprived of their property and potentially run over, it’s interesting that their right not to have random violence perpetrated on them seem to be getting forgotten here, in lieu of the supposed rights of the criminal?

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  • King85King85 Frets: 46
    edited December 5
    Sporky said:
    King85 said:
    Sporky said:
    Shrews said:

    The tiny % will win when a police car paralyses one of the moped thieves. 

    No. No-one wins when that happens  which is why it is right for the tactic to be investigated, and used if/where appropriate.
    I can't understand the logic of this comments like this, they're not stealing a loaf of bread to feed their starving family. They're attacking innocent people currently without any recourse and endangering others in the process of doing so. 
    Did you read the comment I responded to, and my comment?

    Shrews was suggesting that some liberal bogeyman would be delighted if the police paralysed a moped thief (presumably in a "told you so" vein?). I was suggesting that no-one was going to be happy about someone getting paralysed.

    The logic is pretty clear to me. Appropriate engagement by the police and justice system - good. Paralysing people - not good.

    Are you perhaps thinking that I said to let the moped thieves carry on without fear of repercussion? I did not say that. You can check my post.
    You're quite right, on my initial read I got the wrong end of the stick.
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  • robgilmorobgilmo Frets: 1695
    So we kill thieves, what about people who enjoy a spliff? Shall we kill them too? Some one who gets too drunk and makes a fool of them selves on the way home from the pub, shoot them? Speeding, speeding cars can kill and do way more damage than a hand bag thief, shall we give them a hideous death for their crime? Tax evasion anyone? how about pissing on the street on a Saturday night?


    How about deliberately mowing a person down in a car, death penalty?
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 18160
    edited December 5
    robgilmo said:

    So, potentially killing someone is a justified punishment for suspicion of stealing a hand bag? 
    YES!!

    Go on the internet and watch two moped thieves steal a phone from an Asian guy and ride off. Two minutes later they return as they want his pin number. After hitting him he gives it to them but the pillion rider stabs him to death.

    Go watch the little old lady dragged down the street as a moped thug grabs her handbag. She later died of her injuries.

    These people think they're untouchable. These people are scum. They have been warned by the police so as far as I am concerned it's open season. I'd have no problem with an armed officer shooting them dead if they have committed a crime and refuse to stop for the police.

    These tactics are obviously working as moped crime is down 80% in some London borough's.


    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • robgilmorobgilmo Frets: 1695
    Had a quick google, if we allow police officers to run people over then all cry out how they deserved it, where does it end?

    Here.?
    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=police+shoot+innocent&source=lnms&tbm=vid&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwik06H69ojfAhX_RBUIHVLSAx4Q_AUIDygC&biw=1280&bih=571

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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 4047
    Fretwired said:
    robgilmo said:

    So, potentially killing someone is a justified punishment for suspicion of stealing a hand bag? 
    YES!!

    Go on the internet and watch two moped thieves steal a phone from an Asian guy and ride off. Two minutes later they return as they want his pin number. After hitting him he gives it to them but the pillion rider stabs him to death.

    Go watch the little old lady dragged down the street as a moped thug grabs her handbag. She later died of her injuries.

    These people think they're untouchable. These people are scum. They have been warned by the police so as far as I am concerned it's open season. I'd have no problem with an armed officer shooting them dead if they have committed a crime and refuse to stop for the police.

    These tactics are obviously working as moped crime is down 80% in some London borough's.


    There are a relatively small number of perpetrators.

    Catching one of them might easily stop 50 crimes a month.

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