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I had high hopes for the forum after watching it for months I felt confident it would take the best of the MR forum and filter the worst naturally, but it's sad for me to see that it's basically just the exact opposite of the TGP in terms of view, but just as pushing in the views.
The TGP is being battered for pushing pedals down peoples throat as the next big thing and justifying over priced stuff, yes, that needs to be kept in check, however this forum is turning into the anti-view where every single pedal posted above £60 is pulled apart the company turned into mass villains out to trick you and con you, every pedal is "guessed" not factually but guessed over based on peoples perception of the circuit and what maybe in there and a £500 pedal is reduced to £8 of components and called out for being a con and a "clone" - FACT !
Every pedal is a clone and based on something, very few original circuits are made, circuits are modified and improved on, which makes them unique, add a component, change a value it's a "new" circuit, yes it's based on something else, but someone has done the thought/trial and error to come up with this enhancement and put a price on their work/effort. If you feel the work is not worth that price, it's fair to critique it, if you feel the pedal is an acceptable price for you, that is also acceptable, but this whole attitude of unless every pedal make puts this warning on their page "Based on pedal X that I have modified" they are villains.
If you read, I'm not defending the pedals, I find a lot of them overpriced, so I don't buy them, however some of them which have been expensive I fully acknowledge are overpriced, but with no alternative as good, I've bought them, and been pleased with my purchase, or in one case a bit let down, but it's turning into just as exteme but opposite view of the TGP where the TGP posts "THIS PEDAL IS THE AMAZING MAGIC PEDAL!!!!" and anyone who disagrees is shot down and killed, this forum (the FX one in particular) is turning into "IT'S A CLONE OF SOMETHING, I DON'T KNOW WHAT SO I'LL FIND IT IF IT KILLS ME AND POST HOW STUPID YOU ARE AND HOW MUCH OF A CON IT IS !!!!" and if you disagree your just as mocked (but not banned I grant you) as the TGP.
Pretty much done with this now, really disappointed.
This attitude of anything above $X price is a con and must be burnt in flames along with anyone who doesn't feel the need to burn them is just junk and just as bad as the TGP.
This whole attitude is just some sort of witch hunt.
Develop a modified circuit and give it a name - market it - you're evil for not making it clear on your website it's a modified circuit.
clone it and half the price and make it %101 clear it's a clone - you're evil
people can't win.
But that is me out now.
Also, fwiw, making an educated guess based on what's happened previously isn't "just a guess". And a lot of the people who "just guessed" were right last time.
I just like to know what I'm buying. Apparently that's not allowed (see, straw man arguments are annoying!).
Some people go for different op amps, some for different cap values or carbon comp resistors or 1D cables... and until I've figured out how to peddle that kind of snake-oil I'm dubious of it's effectiveness... but absolutely sure you'll love this mod.
I'll mod your existing pedal and for an extra $200 locktite the pots at the correct position and fit internal trimpots for you to fine tune.. all pedals get a sticker to increase the resale value on ebay when a new thread starts.
If you're not happy with the price of this mod, wait for someone to sell you a book of this and many more mods or for the freestompbox people to take the piss
Please note this change gives a warmer more Dumblish-like* sound than is available from an unmodded tubescreamer... there were examples of Tubescreamers leaving the factory with this setup but component tolerances and different QA means this isn't guaranteed.
* The term Dumblish-like describes the sonic ability of the pedal to evoke a medley of emotions: gullibility, shame and financial loss in the listener, in his bedroom, on his own... Some people say it's to do with crystal lettuces... All I know is for $600 you get it... or sell it akwardly saying its the best, in order to chase the next reason to play the same bent note 40-50 times...
Dave,
I don't know what strawman argument you're talking about.
I'm fully agreeing with you the price is out of proportion, and fully accept there are two viewpoints to if a modified circuit should be classed as a new circuit or clearly explained as a modified circuity, I can see why someone with more electrical engineering experience would class a modified circuit as a "mod" rather than a new circuit to someone who just hears it sounding different and believe it's a new - from scratch circuit.
the points I'm trying to put across are that
just because something is over priced - doesn't make it evil or a con, it just means it's overpriced
marketing something a new circuit, thats the subjective part as for a me a modification that makes the circuit different and thus you could word it as a "new circuit" to someone with my level of electrical engineering and be correct, but I also understand why the more experienced electrical engineer would take a more agressive stance that there is nothing new, but at the same time, it's just effective marketing, business do it all the time with every product they don't call the Audi A6 "a mod of the VW passat" they call it "the new Audi A6" because it's a new car, even though it's based on the Passat (or which every way around it is).
a bit more balanced discussion on this other than "it's a con, it's a scam, it's all evil !!! and you're an idiot for believing it" seems better than the attempt to one up the other view point
the part I'm disappointed by - which you seem to think is me defending an overpriced pedal is the venom against it.
TGP is blasted for blindly over hyping and justifying over priced pedals, you must see that the agression with which you are pushing the negative view is pretty much identical to TGP - just the opposing view.
You think it's an overpriced rip off/clone - therefore - FACT, discussion done, anyone who can see a difference view point is wrong and should have jibes thrown at him, this is exactly the same as what TGP is doing with the positive review of the pedal.
nothing strawman in there, just trying to be a bit more objective than "it's a hidden clone burn the maker alive and eat his family, and anyone who thinks otherwise, is an idiot"
It might sound amazing though, if you like that sound. And, if I'm being honest, having amplified nation here, it sounds like he is cloning more to make his money back and give out a few affordable offerings briefly (he's done a handful) rather than rip off and undercut for masses of profit from a hyped circuit. So he's just funding his curiosity, and that's not so bad really. It's still not a cheap pedal, but at least it'll probably be well made and it does look better finished than the original!
I do still wish there was more push for more unique sounds from boutique (which should mean, ultimately, small scale and bespoke). Still would love a modded qtron style envelope filter that works with all types of pickups well, and I would probably pay a fair amount for it - certainly north of £120 for home use, and I'd easily consider more if it was central to recording and live use. I love the qtron! It just loses all dynamics in the lower input gain range, which you need for high output humbucker pickups. So if they fixed that, perhaps gave it two modes of operation, it would be one of the most important pedals in my arsenal.
Though I only have 3 - route 66, tuner and qtron. The qtron, by far, gets the most use because it makes me play funk better.
Just to illustrate some pedal genius, ehx have cloned the klon. But I think (edit: have heard) it has different transistors to keep costs down - yet still sounds the same, so presumably they've had to mod the circuit further to make the pedal sound the same despite not having these expensive components. That's pretty smart, and it also means there is still a market for the more expensive ones, because they will have the 'mojo' parts, and yes, they might sounds marginally different.
I do totally knee jerk react to massively hyped stuff. I often wonder why the dano pedals didn't get hype before the circuits were revealed - they were always 'good for the money'.
http://www.musikding.de/Ceramic-Disc-022-uF
http://www.musikding.de/MKP2-022uF-250V_1
http://www.musikding.de/MKP2-022uF-250V_1
The ceramic is priced at €0.06, there is a film one at €0.45 and an orange drop at €2.25.
Your bog standard cheapo pedal will likely use the ceramic. Most higher quality/boutique offerings would use a film one, and some snake oil salesman will say that Orange Drops have "Mojo" and use them. You might even find one who uses paper-in-oil!
You get similar on resistors. A bog standard 10k is 6 Euro cents, a carbon comp version is 25 cents.
You might also find a boutique manufacturer going for unobtainium Germanium components, or metal film caps at values where a cheapo would use an electrolytic.
Depending on the complexity of the circuit and the exact parts used, a boutique maker could be spending £20 more on the parts. By the time you add a middle man, import duties etc that £20 would translate to £50 on the final price.
Having said all that, $600 for a pedal is ridiculous.