Please critique my band (positive constructive advice)

RocknRollDave · February 2015

close2u said:

monquixote said:

I think of all of the things you list the refusal to do gigs would be the killer for me.

It was based on the advice and encouragement I received from you and others in this thread that mademe search out gigs.
I put out notices in local facebook groups ... covers band seeks mini-gigs (charity shows, showcase events, open mic nights etc).
I got some great responses.
1] a charity night (no payment) as 1st act in a pub - 60 minute set, which I felt confident we could do by leaving out all the dodgy songs.
We all agreed via email and I confirmed with the organiser. At the meeting band members said the pub looked a bit too much like a 'rock venue' and they didn't fancy getting bottled or booed off stage if we weren't playing their type of music.
It was a charity fundraiser!!!!
2] a showcase event, 45 minute set for beer. We all agreed via email and I confirmed. Then it was turned down as we weren't ready and didn't want to have our confidence knocked.
3] another charity event (payment in food & drink) and 4] an engagement party (probably very lucrative) ... both 2x 45 minute sets, both in summer .. lots of time between then and now.
I have had to decline both.
And of course, that makes me look a bit of a fickle git in those facebook groups now should I use that route again.

To be blunt, there's a lot of excuse-making there (on behalf of your bandmates, not you mate!)..Smacks, to me, of a bunch of people who know they aren't up to the task in hand and don't want to put their necks on the line and have their fears confirmed.

I get that they are nervous, but if you are to be a band on any level whatsoever, you MUST be able to get ready for a 45-60 minute gig with no excuses and no fannying about. If you can't do that, don't join a band.

My advice? Get another band, dude!

The thing about it being a "Rock venue" and they might get "bottled or booed off stage"? Utter, utter drivel. Even if rock fans were that small-minded (and I don't believe the kind of people who take time to go out and see live bands ARE that small-minded), the worst that happens when people aren't into your band is that they walk off back to the bar, or nip out for a fag and a chat to their mates, or they go home, or they have a chat at full volume whilst you're trying to nail the quite bits in Silent Lucidity or whatever.. Bottled off?
Nah, you're not Daphne and Celeste at the Reading Festival!

As for the "I can't sing Motown, I'm not black!".....yeaaaah, cos Dan Akroyd and John Belushi were dead spits for Aretha Franklin too, right.....?

John_P · February 2015

With hindsight I suspect you're thinking a lot of these issues could have been sorted with the right discussions before starting the band...

What line up do we want?

What style of music?

How often and how soon do we want to gig?

With the initial enthusiasm of starting a band,it's very easy to persuade yourself that answers to those questions can be sorted later but after a few bands you get better at spotting the evasive answers (and lies!) and who not to waste time with.

Just like Emp Fab's thread on people not learning songs - it's very rare for people to change and some people just like the idea of bing in a band and aren't driven to actually do gigs. Gigging musicians just want to get on with it and will be the people who prep for rehearsals and take no time at all to be ready - finding them is the harder bit but I'm sure you will.

close2u · February 2015

close2u said:
And our cheesiest songs are the singers choices. Her inspirations being musical theatre and Glee (she is involved in youth performing arts). And the ones that she has said she can't sing are fantastic.

Look ... here is the evidence ...

Songs that the singer wants in / has brought in.

Songs that the bassist and I can play and have played in current or previous incarnations of this band, but have been / will be ditched as the singer can't / won't sing them. Or, with a few, because the drummer can't play them.

Read it and weep.

In (recent)

Take Good Care Of My Baby - Bobby Vee
I Drove All Night - Celine Dion version
Believe - Cher
Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow - The Shirelles

Out (recent and historic)

Maria - Blondie
One Way Or Another - Blondie
Teenage Kicks - Undertones
Crocodile Rock - Elton John
Baby I Love You - The Ronettes
Proud Mary - Tina Turner
Part Time Lover - Stevie Wonder
Superstition - Stevie Wonder
Long Train Running - Doobie Brothers
Your Love Keeps Lifting Me Higher - Jackie Wilson
Get Lucky - Daft Punk
Get Ready - The Temptations
Red Light Spells Danger - Billy Ocean
Take Your Mama Out - Scissor Sisters
Heaven In Your Arms - The Elgins
Thinking Of You - Sister Sledge
Let's Dance - David Bowie
Roxanne - The Police
One Love - Bob Marley
Rolling in the Deep - Adele
Mercy - Duffy
Teardrops - Womack
Brown Eyed Girl - Van Morrison
Good Times - Chic
Dancing In The Dark - Bruce Springsteen
Use Somebody - Kings of Leon
Twist & Shout - The Beatles
Blue Suede Shoes - Elvis
Valerie - Amy Winehouse

hubobulous · February 2015

Here's a tip....

Turn up to a rehearsal with you and the bassist having nailed a song that you want to play. Make sure that the two of you are aligned in the structure etc.

The singer will find it much harder to debunk work that's already progressed. Its easy to control the setlist when you're all starting from scratch, but when there's already momentum behind a tune, she might knuckle under.

In terms of the songs that she suggests that you don't like, just struggle to play them. If she criticises, then you can level the same words back at her in terms of learning.

Remember that changing the key of the song is all about helping her. So she has no excuse. I mean, how many songs have such a vocal range that she won't be able to handle them?

PolarityMan · February 2015

I would ditch the singer, she's not that great, certainly not good enough to be treating the rest of the band like you've described and sounds like you have a potential replacement lined up.

While the drummer has a few shaky timing sections simplification would sort those out no problem and drummers are hard to come by.

HAL9000 · February 2015

vasselmeyer;537737" said:
...I made my point very clear when I joined my last band that my personal life comes first and that I wasn't "100% committed" to the band which is what was requested. Birthdays, anniversaries, holidays and work came first and then the band got what was left...

...is just supposed to be fun and a hobby. Face it, hardly anybody makes a living out of being in a covers band so, if all you want is to have fun and earn a bit of pocket money, why deal with other peoples' agendas?

This. Wiz awarded.

Paul_C · February 2015

PolarityMan said:

I would ditch the singer, she's not that great, certainly not good enough to be treating the rest of the band like you've described and sounds like you have a potential replacement lined up.

While the drummer has a few shaky timing sections simplification would sort those out no problem and drummers are hard to come by.

except the drummer and singer are an item, so they can't ditch one without losing the other (probably

)

fretmeister · February 2015

Paul_C said:

PolarityMan said:

I would ditch the singer, she's not that great, certainly not good enough to be treating the rest of the band like you've described and sounds like you have a potential replacement lined up.

While the drummer has a few shaky timing sections simplification would sort those out no problem and drummers are hard to come by.

except the drummer and singer are an item, so they can't ditch one without losing the other (probably )

I've been in a band like that (as you know) and the arguments can be spectacular!

PVO_Dave · February 2015

Having read all of the thread, I'm also inclined to tell you to ditch it.

Being in a band has got to be fun if you are doing this in your spare time, if you're not happy now and there's no change on the horizon this will rapidly become a chore.

I briefly listened to a few of the videos, I thought the singer was 'pitchy' to be honest, all felt very sharp (as in shrill) to me. I know you'll lose both the drums and singer if you go down that route, but with the amount of joinmyband, bandmix type sites out there, you'll find more like minded people.

If the singer that's been in touch is interested (and good), have a chat with the bass player and stick up a drummer wanted advert.

Sorry if the above is a bit negative, but having gone through the chore stage a couple of times, including the incredibly frustrating song choice discussions, I know what my answer would be this time round too

randomhandclaps · February 2015

PolarityMan said:

I would ditch the singer, she's not that great, certainly not good enough to be treating the rest of the band like you've described and sounds like you have a potential replacement lined up.

While the drummer has a few shaky timing sections simplification would sort those out no problem and drummers are hard to come by.

No only do I make @PolarityMan right, but I would go a bit further -

TBH I have watched all of the videos along with my wife. I did when you first posted them and I almost posted something but avoided it for the risk of upsetting a forumite who was looking for positive critique - which can obviously be a debatable and touchy area. Here's how I saw it then and still do, but now I am going to post it as I think it might actually help you currently rather than give you more to worry about.

You were naturally critical of yourself for a few mistakes you made. We all make mistakes, I didn't see much wrong with you and the bass player and truth be told in that setup Jimi Hendrix and Joco Pastorious would have struggled to shine.
With the drummer, not only is he 'shaky' and 'sloppy' but if you watch closely is comes down to a laziness. There's not one point where he looks up and on it. There's being laid back and there's not giving a shit and he's body language, coupled with the playing just screams - MEH!!
The most glaring point is the singer. As I said I watched it with my wife who is a vocal coach. In all honestly she has nothing going on and you won't struggle to find a better singer. Very much like the drummer she comes across as if she thinks she is naturally more talented than she is. To put it completely bluntly (and this is obviously an opinion) front people comes in all shapes and sizes offering differing things. However other than having enough balls to scream into the mic and 'dance' about I can't see anything that would appeal, especially on a competitive cover circuit where punters and looking for tight professional renditions of familiar songs.

Really I felt before reading your posts today and still feel now that the bass player and yourself are wasting your time and talent. I honestly think than even if you lived on an Island with only 6 residents you wouldn't struggle to improve the other two areas of your line up.

I hope it all goes well for you as I know how frustrating things can be, but never be afraid of taking a step backwards in order to move forward long term, as @monquixote's recent band history can confirm.

monquixote · February 2015

Indeed I sunk far too much time in a band where the drummer didn't have the time, the singer didn't have the energy and the keyboard player was unreliable. We were "almost gig ready" for about 18 months, but even at the show after which I quit we still weren't at a standard I felt proud to put my name against.

It took a lot of determination to quit, but I'm now in a band with a couple of people I've worked with before and have absolute confidence in their ability and determination and we've found a brilliant singer (and more importantly front woman). It's given me the inspiration to have singing lessons and improve my abilities as a guitarist.

supes · February 2015

I've played in cover bands for years, and you do start to identify problems quickly.
Just my opinion, but your singer isn't great, certainly not worth hanging onto with the other problems that come attached. From the videos she's the weakest link.
We all have to make sacrifices and back down at times just for an easy life if the outcome us worth it - but I dont think your singer is good enough to compromise this much for.
I'd leave with the bass player, find a drummer and meet up with the 'new' singer. Just my opinion but I wouldnt waste any more time. I reckon it will happen eventually regardless.

bobblehat · March 2015

close2u said:

No Motown … maybe, at some far distant unspecified future date, maybe. But probably not because the singer said she struggles to sing them, she ain't black and her voice is too pure for them.

Really? Too f**king pure?

LOL

close2u · March 2015

UPDATE

The band has now been disbanded.

The bass player & I have decided, after several extremely fraught weeks of concern and anxiety, that it is better to write off the time already spent, than to continue to spend time on something we know won't be as good as we expect or want, no matter how much time we give it.

The deciding factors for me ...

The band wouldn't be getting a 2nd singer (singer against this)
The band wouldn't be doing Motown etc songs
The band wouldn't drop the songs that the singer can't sing
The band wouldn't take the gigs I arranged
The singer couldn't learn new songs quickly enough, if at all

I have no regrets and it feels like a weight has been lifted.

Time to start all over again.

Or seek a position as a 'jobbing guitarist' with no responsibility and no decisions to make - just turn up and play.

Or quit chasing the dream of playing in a band and just concentrate on duo acoustic work with my wife singing.

I am genuinely appreciative of all the time each and every contributor made to this discussion. If I have not thanked you personally with a reply, I wish to thank each and every one of you now. Your comments and insight / perspectives have been more helpful than you know. And will continue to be helpful in to the future also.

Cheers one and all!

robinbowes · March 2015

Right decision. Well done. Good luck with future ventures.

vasselmeyer · March 2015

I think you did the right thing. Not sure how you left the band but in all the bands I've been in I've never burned any bridges and always made a point up to put a call in a few days later just to thank each member of the band for their time and effort (even if they're arseholes, you can usually say something pleasant to say). You never know when you might end up playing with them again or need a reference or a recommendation for a dep gig.

Good luck with whatever project you move onto next.

stickyfiddle · March 2015

Just read through this saga (!) and you've done the right thing.

I may have been spoiled by my last lot's professionalism but I couldn't work with a band like that. Every band needs a bandleader, but everyone in a band has a minimum requirement to 1) learn their shit 2) be able to play said shit once learned, and 3) accept constructive criticism because they want to improve.

Chuck an interesting-sounding guitarist available ad on gumtree and bandmix and see what happens

close2u · March 2015

@stickyfiddle

you mean copy / paste this one?

http://thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/535777/#Comment_535777

stickyfiddle · March 2015

close2u said:

@stickyfiddle

you mean copy / paste this one?

http://thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/535777/#Comment_535777

Worked for me! Actually, it didn't, iirc. I found them, but it *did* fill my inbox with interested messages from musos.

PVO_Dave · March 2015

Joinmyband and BandMix have both yielded good results for me in the last week, had three bass players and three singers email me so far!

Right choice to make @close2u - the fact you now feel relieved says it all

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Please critique my band (positive constructive advice)

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