School me on Gibraltar

Fretwired

guitars4you said:

ICBM said:

jellyroll said:

Agree with the sentiment but not sure Gibraltar is an Empire 2.0 question is it? We have an irrefutable mandate to the place so as long as the resident are happy to stay Britsh, what's the Empire issue?

I don't recall the six and a half million inhabitants of Hong Kong being given that option.

And we did own Hong Kong Island and Kowloon outright, by treaty just as with Gibraltar - it was only the New Territories that were leased.

I've not looked into how we acquired Gibraltar so will do so later - But I'll make a good guess as to how - Honk Kong we effectively acquired it not as a gift, but as a form of negotiation, under our terms, following the Opium wars with China and a case of we had a superior Navy and guns

I guess for many years, certainly around the days of Nelson, that Gibraltar was an important naval port and as such of great strategic  importance - I'm not so sure we could justify that today - Yes we transplanted a few Brits there and they fly the UJ flag - But I find it hard to justify it as ours - what if Spain owned the Isle of White - Or indeed many of the fishing rights around Cornwall !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Technically France owns England .. how far back do you want to go? Before the French the Danes owned a big chunk and before them the Romans. Maybe the Italians should put in a claim for England. That way we could stay in the EU and drink cheap wine.

ICBM

Fretwired said:

The Chinese would have taken it by force and there would have been bugger all we could have done about it. 

They wouldn't even have needed to use force - Hong Kong wasn't viable without the New Territories because that's where the water supply is. Turn off the water, wait three days and the job would be done.

Nevertheless the point is the same - it's not necessarily up to the inhabitants, unless they can support and defend themselves. Our government didn't fight over giving up the rights of the Hong Kong people, and so the population of Gibraltar shouldn't be under any illusions about it either. Whether that's right or not is a different question…

Once we're out of the EU and the Single Market the Spanish can simply close the border if they want to. I assume the 96% to 4% vote for Remain in Gibraltar shows they are well aware of that.

guitars4you

Fretwired said:

guitars4you said:

ICBM said:

jellyroll said:

Agree with the sentiment but not sure Gibraltar is an Empire 2.0 question is it? We have an irrefutable mandate to the place so as long as the resident are happy to stay Britsh, what's the Empire issue?

I don't recall the six and a half million inhabitants of Hong Kong being given that option.

And we did own Hong Kong Island and Kowloon outright, by treaty just as with Gibraltar - it was only the New Territories that were leased.

I've not looked into how we acquired Gibraltar so will do so later - But I'll make a good guess as to how - Honk Kong we effectively acquired it not as a gift, but as a form of negotiation, under our terms, following the Opium wars with China and a case of we had a superior Navy and guns

I guess for many years, certainly around the days of Nelson, that Gibraltar was an important naval port and as such of great strategic  importance - I'm not so sure we could justify that today - Yes we transplanted a few Brits there and they fly the UJ flag - But I find it hard to justify it as ours - what if Spain owned the Isle of White - Or indeed many of the fishing rights around Cornwall !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Technically France owns England .. how far back do you want to go? Before the French the Danes owned a big chunk and before them the Romans. Maybe the Italians should put in a claim for England. That way we could stay in the EU and drink cheap wine.

Not hard to see why there are so many conflicts and potential conflicts around throughout the world based on sovereignty - We only acquired South Africa once William of Orange came over here, invited to be our King - Despite the fact that he was way day the list based on a blood line

Maybe we can still make a claim for the USA then - we had a couple of attempts to get it back including supporting the South during their civil war 

Wait until China inflicts its power over Taiwan - more a case of when and not if

I did actually say hard to justify it as ours and not that we will or should hand it back - I suppose it can mean the same thing though - There are stories that Hitler was prepared to help Franco take it back, or vice versa, based on mutual support

AliGorie

eh - back to now -
“The solution is to take the tax haven out of Gibraltar…there won’t be much left to fight over.” Professor Richard Murphy

https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/10706/economics-professor-root-gibraltar-stramash-its-tax-haven-role

Rocker

So Gibraltar is a bit like Northern Ireland then. Bigger and more guns etc

VimFuego

Rocker said:

So Gibraltar is a bit like Northern Ireland then. Bigger and more guns etc

erm, no.

jellyroll

VimFuego said:

Rocker said:

So Gibraltar is a bit like Northern Ireland then. Bigger and more guns etc

erm, no.

How about, it's next to Spain, it's full of monkeys and it's not France?

VimFuego

apes

jellyroll

Pedant

cruxiform

All I know is the BBC couldn't spell it in their news report yesterday morning. I couldn't resist tweeting it to them but they didn't get back to me.

Clarky

all I know about Gib is that they speak a weird language, they hate Spain with a passion and are fiercely British..
and it's just up the road from me mum's place

57Deluxe

Don't get too close to the apes - they have a habit of picking their arses and throwing feces at you and then come and want to put their hands in your packed lunches and hair!  - Oh  - sounds just like the EU.....

Limehouse_Blues

Clarky said:

all I know about Gib is that they speak a weird language, they hate Spain with a passion and are fiercely British..
and it's just up the road from me mum's place

It's funny really because for most of the Rock's history its inhabitants weren't considered British citizens but rather British overseas territory citizens (something qualitatively different). I think this changed in the early 2000s. It is somewhat offensive that Gibraltarians can now enjoy all the rights and privileges of full UK citizenship without paying the same taxes as other fully fledged UK citizens unfortunate to be resident on UK territory proper.

many Gibraltarians live or own property in Spain but pay no tax there because they spend enough time on the rock to be tax resident in Gibraltar. The chief minister reportedly owns expensive residential real estate across the border in Spain.

gibraltarians know which side their bread is buttered on, hence voting remain almost without exception. Despite all the fighting talk and sabre rattling the FCO and other arms of government have much bigger issues to fret over than Gibraltar in the coming years.

it's surprising people are surprised that the Article 50 letter didn't mention Gibraltar. It was never going to be high on the list of UK priorities.

DLM

VimFuego said:

apes

Errm, no. Barbary macaques are monkeys.

CabbageCat

Rocker said:

So Gibraltar is a bit like Northern Ireland then. Bigger and more guns etc

Check this out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibraltar

Wikipedia is great for things about things. You'll love it. You are going to be so psyched when someone tells you about Google.

FX_Munkee

It's southern Spain for people who don't find the bars selling egg and chips in the Costa del Sol "British" enough.
It's full of beer, cigarettes and monkeys. Which make it sound good, but it's surprisingly not.

Fretwired

FX_Munkee said:

It's southern Spain for people who don't find the bars selling egg and chips in the Costa del Sol "British" enough.
It's full of beer, cigarettes and monkeys. Which make it sound good, but it's surprisingly not.

Margate in the sun!

guitars4you

FX_Munkee said:

It's southern Spain for people who don't find the bars selling egg and chips in the Costa del Sol "British" enough.
It's full of beer, cigarettes and monkeys. Which make it sound good, but it's surprisingly not.

isn't it some centre for gambling as well - I have a friend work there in this sector - not fully aware of what he actually does

holnrew

Yeah loads of poker businesses are based there

Rocker

CabbageCat said:

Rocker said:

So Gibraltar is a bit like Northern Ireland then. Bigger and more guns etc

Check this out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibraltar

Wikipedia is great for things about things. You'll love it. You are going to be so psyched when someone tells you about Google.

True but I want to read what you guys feel/think about Gibraltar. Not the dry boring fact stuff. And a small part of me wonders why the UK retains 'ownership' of the Rock. It is understandable if Spain feels a bit miffed about this. We in Ireland would feel the same if the USA laid claim to the Aran Islands.